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bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage - update

Postby barry grrr-ero » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:04 pm

OK, I've got the cimbasso. I don't like the looks of those converted cello stands. Someone could knock into the bell and the whole thing come flying down (I suppose a bit of velcro would help secure it). Has anyone tried a bicycle maintenance stand? . . .

I'm thinkin' (usually a bad sign) why not let the peg rest on the floor while the elevated clamp, clamps on to some balanced spot along the lower part of the bell (the smaller diameter part). What do you think? . . . would the bell just twist around? . . .

This one comes with a little tray for your smart phone (I ain't got one) and water bottle; cigarettes too, if you've got a night club gig in South America.

https://www.ebay.com/p/Pro-Bike-Adjusta ... 1358556043" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Last edited by barry grrr-ero on Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby tofu » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:03 pm

I've got lots of bicycle stands from super expensive $375 to cheap $20 and I would not use any of them for an instrument. The clamps will exert way too much force on the soft brass of a horn. And I've never seen one that you could dial that down to an acceptable level for a horn. The clamps are pretty crude on even expensive stands. There are other issues with using a bike stand but the clamp alone would be a non-starter for me.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby Mark » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:11 pm

I also worry about the stability of the stand. But, I have not found anything better.

The bass players are your friends. I had a viola player try to squeeze between me and the basses and was about to hit my cimbasso on the bell. One of the basses stuck their bow in the viola's chest and said very firmly, "go around".
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby barry grrr-ero » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:45 pm

I see your point. The peg would still take the brunt of the weight, so the clamp wouldn't need to be applied tightly. The idea is to just suspend the upper part while the weight rests on the floor. Could the clamp be turned vertically so that it's holding the inner of the two braces (the more centered brace)? Obviously, more rubber cushioning would be necessary for a tight fit.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby Casca Grossa » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:47 pm

tofu wrote:I've got lots of bicycle stands from super expensive $375 to cheap $20 and I would not use any of them for an instrument. The clamps will exert way too much force on the soft brass of a horn. And I've never seen one that you could dial that down to an acceptable level for a horn. The clamps are pretty crude on even expensive stands. There are other issues with using a bike stand but the clamp alone would be a non-starter for me.


I agree on this. It would definitely do some damage to the horn.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby bloke » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:04 pm

My K&M bass clarinet/bassoon stand (already had it...probably an "older version") supports the cimbasso, won't let it fall, but allows it to flop around on the stand.

The "flopping" can be scary - until it is realized that it can't fall, and the ADVANTAGE to the floppiness is that as SOON as you can set you tuba down (carefully), and grab the cimbasso (carefully), you can switch instruments mid-piece (ex: from playing the 4th 'bone part in "Ride" to covering the major-key tuba part...or in some pops medley...or whatever). i.e. There's no "popping it loose" or "unfastening"...just grab-and-get.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby Walter Webb » Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:02 am

All the bicycle repair stands I have seen, have an adjusting screw to dial in the grip tension of the clamp. If you are careful, you could easily set it to hold your cimbasso without any impact.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby barry grrr-ero » Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:33 am

The first bike shop I went into today has this great lookin' Spin Doctor Pro G3 bike stand, in which the clamp CAN be turned vertically. It's really heavy duty, but can be folded down to a reasonably portable state. The salesman said that their shop can easily put rubber around one of the vertical braces on the bell section. I'm going to take the cimbasso (G&P) in tomorrow and see how this works. It should be quite an attention grabber in a bicycle shop. I'll try it with the clamp in both the horizontal position (upon the lower, cylindrical end of the bell), and vertical position (along the inner vertical bell brace) Remember, the weight is going to be on the cello peg (which clamps tightly on the G&P - there are two screws to hold it securely). It this works and I buy it, I'll eventually post photos of it.

If this seriously interests anyone, be sure to watch the little demo video

https://www.amazon.com/Spin-Doctor-Bicy ... B017KS5S8I" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Bloke, I would faint at the sight of my beautiful G&P cimbasso flopping about on a converted cello stand. No way, Jose (and the bike shop is in San Jose).
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby tofu » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:51 am

Walter Webb wrote:All the bicycle repair stands I have seen, have an adjusting screw to dial in the grip tension of the clamp. If you are careful, you could easily set it to hold your cimbasso without any impact.


Well you could do it, but the keyword is "careful". I don't know what the OP's playing situation is, but in the heat of battle "careful" sometimes gets lost in translation. If he has to switch instruments quickly and/or in tight quarters like a pit orchestra I would personally want a real bullet proof solution that isn't a "wearing kid gloves" solution. Bike tubes are incredibly strong and can take a lot of clamp force and bikes sometimes need that for repair work - like the high amount of force required in removing/freeing a bottom bracket from the frame. I'll be interested in seeing if he comes up with a workable in all situations bike stand for his cimbasso. Perhaps a stand geared toward working on carbon fiber frames might be more brass friendly. The good news is that when not playing he can set the bike stand up outside the hall and do street bicycle repairs and make way more money than the average tuba gig pays. :P
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby barry grrr-ero » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:26 am

"The good news is that when not playing he can set the bike stand up outside the hall and do street bicycle repairs and make way more money than the average tuba gig pays"

Thanks. This is especially true in Santa Cruz - far more bicycles than tuba gigs.

Thank you for your words of caution. We'll see what happens tomorrow. There shouldn't be any need to clamp tightly, as the weight of the cimbasso will be transferred down the peg. In fact, I foresee the clamp just acting as a saddle, more or less. I have NO intentions of being a 'quick change artist' between tuba and cimbasso. The Neptune tuba is a chore in and of itself. Between cimbasso and bass trombone is more likely.

All I know for certain, is that I'm not going to watch my cimbasso flop about on a cello stand with a plastic dixie cup attached to it. Forget that.

I also made a mistake and said, "lower conical end of the bell". I meant lower CYLINDRICAL end of the bell. I've corrected that posting.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby Donn » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:31 am

barry grrr-ero wrote:There shouldn't be any need to clamp tightly


Assuming the clamp adjustment really modifies the opening, not tension, it seems to me it should be pretty easy to adjust it so that it leaves some room when closed all the way. Then line it with some foam or other compressible material, to make up the difference.

I'd be more worried just that the stand is too sturdy. A light stand will tip when something comes up, and of course you don't want it to tip over and send the instrument to the floor, but we neglect to consider that short of that, it's a good thing - the bamboo that sways with the the wind etc. When part of the cimbasso is firmly locked into place, instead of tipping, will it fold? I don't see the weight listed for the one you mention, but it looks pretty light, maybe it's not too sturdy.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby barry grrr-ero » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:30 pm

Thanks Donn - more fuel for thought. I'll know later today if this stand is worth buying. There is some room to swivel where the bell joins the crook piece, so it shouldn't be so rigid as to break anything (I trust). I think the trick will be to make certain that the weight is on the floor - just like when you're playing the thing. Believe me, I won't allow anyone to just knock this over.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby bloke » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:56 pm

Barry,
It always "flops" over to one side and stops in the same place.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby pjv » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:19 am

Since you're into creative solutions; take a walk around a well stocked percussion store. Percussion players have to hit and kick anything on their stands so these decent ones are very stable and sturdy.
Their stands are often made with the idea of being flexibly utilised. They are "modular" and you can add all sorts of attachments to the most simple stand. Often a percussionist has a modern work whereby their attaching even something fragile (like a glass) to a tomtom stand. Whatever works.

I have a modified cymbal stand; just the stand with lots of creative foam rubber at the part where the cabal should go (that parts at a 90 degree angle).
Point is it works and I've used it for real quick changes on very busy stages.

Good luck
(if only K&M would make their sousaphone stands with the same integrity of an average percussion stand...)
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby Rivercity Tuba » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:19 pm

bloke wrote:My K&M bass clarinet/bassoon stand (already had it...probably an "older version") supports the cimbasso, won't let it fall, but allows it to flop around on the stand.

The "flopping" can be scary - until it is realized that it can't fall, and the ADVANTAGE to the floppiness is that as SOON as you can set you tuba down (carefully), and grab the cimbasso (carefully), you can switch instruments mid-piece (ex: from playing the 4th 'bone part in "Ride" to covering the major-key tuba part...or in some pops medley...or whatever). i.e. There's no "popping it loose" or "unfastening"...just grab-and-get.

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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby barry grrr-ero » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:03 pm

I couldn't get to that bike store yesterday. I'm going to take time to look on Craigslist and see what's out there. I appreciate the excellent suggestions.

I also appreciate concern about making a 'quick change', but I just don't foresee that happening. I don't foresee a need to clamp the daylights out of the thing either. Did anyone take a look at that video for the Spin Doctor? . . .

The way clamp is set up, the lower end of the cimbasso bell - the cylindrical part - can just rest in the clamp when I have the stand next to me at rehearsals. It's working as a saddle. The height will be adjusted so that the weight of the cimbasso is on the floor - through the peg. I think that would be better between tunes - flipping through music, adjusting clothes pegs, swig of H2O, etc. - than having to the lie the thing at a 22 degree angle every time.

When I want to rest the cimbasso for longer periods - breaks, back stage, between classes, at home, etc. - I can turn the clamp so it does clamp onto the inner of the two bell braces (G&P cimbasso). To make that happen smoothly, I'll need to put a bit of rubber on that brace. This may require some height adjustment of the stand, but that ain't no big deal. Again, the weight will rest upon the floor. The G&P will is pretty well balanced at that middle brace, so I don't foresee it spinning about, etc.

Anyway, I'll try the thing early next week and report back. I do appreciate the input, pro and con.
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby tofu » Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:31 am

I did watch the video of the Spin Doctor - I don't own one, but have looked at them in the past because they fold up so compactly so they don't take up much room when taken on bike trips/races in the car.

Here are a couple of other things beyond the clamp issue that as a musician would concern me. Those 3 long legs just beg to be tripped over by you or another musician on stage (trombone players are historically klutzes). If you have it backstage where alls sorts of people wander around not paying attention to the floor it would be easy to miss those long legs sticking out and knock both horn and stand over. One of things people who use K&M tuba playing stands always complain about is tripping over the stand - which is nothing compared to the length of the spin doctor legs. A dark floor or curtains (not uncommon on stages) would make seeing those long dark legs that much harder. If the legs can be completely set flat to the ground (like a Baltimore Brass tuba stand) that would go a long way to reduce the trip factor.

The second is maybe minor, but a consideration if you have to haul it a distance by foot to the gig along with your horn(s) - it weighs 16 pounds -so it weighs close to hauling an F tuba along with your Cimbasso plus your CC or F. I personally find myself more and more becoming a minimalist in hauling stuff to gigs. :shock:
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage?

Postby barry grrr-ero » Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:20 am

Thanks. I plan on having the valve cluster in one hand (in its bag); bell section across my shoulder (or back, in a separate bag); stand in the other hand. If that's too much, I'll use the converted baby jogger I have. If it's a tight stage or a quick in-and-out job, I'll forego any stand.

The guy at the store showed me that the legs can be pulled up so that the diameter of the base isn't much greater than any other stand. Yet, the thing is heavy duty enough that it doesn't want to tip. I don't think this will be a huge problem either - I tried knocking it over in the store.

But if clumsy colleagues are THAT much of a problem, I'll get orange construction cones!

https://www.uline.com/BL_1419/Crowd-Control-Barrier" target="_blank" target="_blank
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Re: bicycle maintenance stand for Cimbasso usage - update

Postby barry grrr-ero » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:24 pm

I auditioned the stand in the bike store and bought the Pro G3. I'm going to shorten the center shaft and casing by 3 or 4 inches. That way, I'll be able to have the stand near me - without the legs being spread far apart (keeping the circumference down) - and just rest the lower end of the bell in the cradle without having to further lengthen the 'cello' peg. During breaks or for home storage (so I can quickly begin practicing), I'll turn the clamp vertically and clamp on to the inner vertical brace between the lower and upper ends of the bell. I tried that in the shop and everything balanced perfectly. The trick is to keep the weight on the floor (duh!). I'll put some padding on the brace, but it's not even necessary 'out of the box'.

After the shortening operation, I'll post photos of the finished product. I think this will work. It'll take less total space than using a 22 degree angled stand.

At home, I'll position the stand so that the outer edge of the bell is resting up against a wall. The point is to get me to PRACTICE w/o the drudgery of constantly assembling the thing.
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