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Okay, so this is something that I have heard many people say, and as we read post on here "have to switch to CC, or must play F". I understand there are certain "traditions" that people tend to follow, but should someone, a student looking at an under graduate or graduate program be told "no you can't play that, you have to play this instead" if the student is playing on a horn of professional quality that is adequate for the playing they do.

I feel that if a student is happy with, preforms at an adequate level using a professional quality horn they should not be told "you cannot go on unless you switch"

Thoughts?

I'm 71 years old. No one is going to tell me what to play or how to play it. I think I would still feel the same if I was 18 and ready to shell out big bucks for a music degree.

The short answer is "it doesn't make a bit of difference".

If you wanted to play in Vienna or Berlin or...

I agree with you Dan! If it works, why should it matter?

Do you not need a somewhat shiny tuba?

(I mean, not as shiny as your shoes would need to be, for certain typical apparel, but ... at least, not the worn lacquer look.)

99.9999% of tuba players aren't going to have to worry about $120,0000/year jobs or for that matter $1200/year jobs in spite of what academia is telling them. The tuba is a big horn in a little world.

I don't know about anyone else, but I find F tuba playing perpetually dissatisfying. It's like a Euphonium that weighs twice as much and plays half as well.

People use smaller instruments because they are easier to play in nimble music. It's the exact same reason why professional trumpet players play C, E flat, and Piccolo trumpets. You lose something by switching from the big instrument to small instruments, in terms of depth and breadth of sound, but people who want to play their best make choices about finding the balance of ease of execution and the particular quality, depth, clarity and mass of sound of that matters to them.

An excellent player can play anything on anything, tuba-wise. Once your act is that well together, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to make decisions based on what makes your life easier, and what makes things closest to your ideal performance.

There are great players in every part of the world who do amazing things on whatever key of instrument they feel like playing, regardless of traditions or norms. They are not doing anything wrong by succeeding on instruments that are outside of their particular corner-of-the-world's mainstream. People who succeed on instruments that are part of their region's mainstream aren't doing anything wrong, either. If a player is satisfied with what they are doing, and how their equipment helps them do it, then there is the right answer.

I can play the Vaughan Williams and Symphonie Fantastique on C, hell I can play them on B-flat tuba and on euphonium, but it is EASIER on F tuba. There's plenty of lit that I play on C and on euphonium because it's easier on those instruments. What matters is my comfort level, balance between amount of practice and home life, and that what comes out of the bell is more or less what I wanted to be without excessive stress.

My music-major students are required by me to own a professional quality C tuba by the end of their sophomore year. I have signed off on them buying Instruments from as low as below $2000 to above $10,000, as long as it's not obviously a painful impact on their family. I require this because the level of literature that I am obligated to have them perform toward the end of their undergraduate studies is so advanced that it is, in my opinion, unreasonably difficult to ask them to play it on it B-flat tubas. Also, in my opinion a C tuba is an excellent all-around instrument, and will serve them well for the next five or six decades of their lives, whatever direction they take.

I encourage all my students to buy used instruments if it all possible, and I consider it a part of my job to help them find great professional used instruments at reasonable prices, focusing on the needs of the student, the quality of the instruments, but never, ever on the particular brand.

I couldn't agree more with the sentiment previously expressed that picking up a smaller instrument and thinking it should play the same as a larger instrument but with an easier high register is not the wisest approach. They are different instruments, and if you do it the right way that is a good thing. Playing a string bass and a cello are in some ways very similar, but no one would expect them to feel or sound the same. In my opinion that difference should be celebrated.

This is a reply to a deleted reply to my post pointing out the excellent work of B-flat players from the past:

Please take a second look at my post.

No flunking here, no judgement of past or current successes, other than recognizing the validity of the success and the variety of paths to that success. It's just easier.

Just answering the original question as completely, honestly, and open to other perspectives as possible.

It's my job to get my students to success as effectively and efficiently as possible.

There are great B-flat players from this country and others, this time and past times, who could play circles around many C players today. The instrument doesn't make you a great player. It's just easier, most of the time, on most lit (not all the time and not on all lit) to play C.

Many say an Eb with 4 or more valves is a do it all tuba. As an Eb player, I agree with this statement as long as you define what you are planning on playing. I believe that it is easier to support a concert band with a BBb (or maybe a C) and the orchestra stuff I play would be easier on a C. Selecting the horn for the music you plan to play does make things easier and likely with a more appropriate sound, but a good player can use the horn that works best for them too. The tone characteristics can very from manufacturer to manufacturer. Forcing a student to play a particular key or brand is a little uppity for my taste. Play what works for you and what you can afford, the rest is in the very fine details.

I had a pretty decent freelance career playing the tuba in all kinds of situations, mostly commercial, and ended up playing in a nice little pops symphony for ten years. At no time did anyone ask what key my horn was in. That included employers like Henry Mancini, Ray Bloch, Leroy Holmes, Joel Herron, Paul Lavalle, Ringling Bros., Disney, and dozens of others. I never owned a CC tuba; while in college I played a Meinl-Weston Bell model CC for about a month that Mr. Bell had left with Don Butterfield on spec and hated the thing. Overweight, gruesomely out of tune to itself and not for me. I have friends for whom that was their perfect horn. In real life I matched the horn to the job at hand based on my own common sense, not the dictates of an academic, peer pressure, "fashion" - or the employer - with the exception of Paul Lavalle who insisted on a bell-front tuba.
If your teacher makes the make (or key) of instrument (or ditching the instrument you can currently afford) a condition of your continued study with him or her I would advise you to study elsewhere. The same thing goes for teachers that arbitrarily change students' mouthpieces, etc. Once you learn to play the instrument switching to another key, or design of horn is not that big of a deal down the road. There is a lot to know about tuba playing beyond the symphony orchestra repertoire - starting with the circle of fifths. In the words of Joe Novotny (NY Philharmonic for 25 years after Bell) who could seamlessly switch between CC, BBb and F - "Buy a tuba; learn to play it".

This is a subject I reflect on quite often and I can only share my experience of the receiving end of (strong) professor reccomendations.

I studied with with Dr. Gary Bird as a music major 2002-2006 (retired 2007). I very much respect Gary, as we all did, so when he "strongly encouraged" (read: intimidated) the Freshmen to learn CC tuba, I hastily, and to my parent's bewilderment, sold my Yamaha 641... a horn that by no means is a professional quality horn, but got me through high school, youth orchestra, and county/state band just fine. I also think it would have been just fine to get me through as a Music Ed major (especially the vanilla "BA in Music" I left IUP with). But, I have came to really enjoy CC tuba in college, and those are the fingerings hardwired into me now as a 30s weekend warrior. However, like many decisions in life, there are pros and cons.

CC Tuba Pros (this is personal experience only)
*Sight reading is easier (to me); coming from bass guitar, my brain understands the concept of raising/lowering "natural" pitches vs keeping track of adding/subtracting from the 2 already in the key of Bb. Somehow reading in Db & Gb is cake to me vs how I remember playing on Bb (regardless, it's all a mental game).
*(Slightly) better control of "lyrical" tessatura in the staff
*I can communicate notes/fingerings to the trumpet/alto/TC baritone players in my brass band like a boss (open = C baby!)
*I'm in the love with the sound and intonation playing on my current horn in CC. It's the "tuba sound in my head" and I feel more expressive on this horn than any other I've owned in any key. This one just happens to be a C tuba, so I'm sticking with it.

Cons (reasons I sometimes wish I never switched)
*The most playable CC tubas (ones with inherently good intonation and 5 valves) are more expensive when comparing apples to apples. This is a fact.
*I can't find a good CC sousaphone/helicon to save my life. I've passed on so many <$1K QUALITY USA sousa offers, it's becoming painful. I'll either be converting a 4V Buescher or King (if I can find one), or hoping that Jonathan's rumored CC helicon makes it into on the Wessex product line. Spending >$3K is in my future either way.
*If my horn has to go to the shop during Wind Symphony season, I'm screwed (plenty of BBbs to borrow in my network, but no CCs).
*Similar to the above, I can't (easily) pick up a loaner horn for a trad or sports gig without taking a dump on my reading ability.

Ryan "I totally realize many pro players play many horns in many keys in many different playing situations. Good or them. I work 50hrs at an office job and I'm just lucky I can squeeze in enough practice time to play well (enough) on the horn I have in the one key I'm most proficient on" H.