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I have a meinl Weston 2250 that needs to be oiled every 30 minutes or so. The valves never stick, but they are very heavy (but still smooth) if they haven't been oiled for thirty minutes. It's been like this from the first day I bought it (demo horn, but essentially new). I use whatever oil is around, initially using what came in the little care package with the horn.

What's the deal?

Same here with my Eastman 632*... which like yours was a demo horn, like new. Even after getting the valves checked, cleaned, de-burred, AND fitted with premium name-brand valve guides, my first valve will still hang if not readily oiled. Have you noticed that the valves stick/drag more when you press down at a slight angle? More importantly, have you had your horn cleaned and inspected since your purchase?

Regardless, the solution (for me, for my issue, from Matt Walters) is:

1. Use a heavier weight valve oil, which will cling to the piston a bit more and offer a longer duration of lubricity at the (slight) expense of "springiness" (short term solution). I moved from a Hetman's #1 up to a #2. It's a notable improvement, but I'm going to switch to #3 (classic) when I run out. I've also been recommended Fat Cat oil (heavier weight stuff).
2. Time (long-term solution). Some new piston horns (*regardless of pedigree, or country or origin) simply need to break in. I think my 1st piston just needs to go up and down 3,053 or so more times in the casing before achieving optimal "springiness". Only time will tell. We'll see what it's like in 6 months when I go in for my next service.

I trust Matt, and so far his advice has held true. Of course, YMMV.

Yeah, I just have been using up this free light oil before pulling out the lamp oil. Not sure I buy the "different oils" thing. They never hang, just get heavy and slow. And not a pressing at an angle thing. I'll check to see if they feel greasy, but they usually LOOK just wet.

One more clue. I've always pulled the valve up an inch, put oil on the exposed part, out it back and been good. But this horn requires me to remove the full valve and cover it in oil, otherwise it feels like I did nothing. Maybe because it takes that larger amount to thin the grease.

Sounds good. Thank you guys

Maybe not for the OP, but for issues like the 632 above, after assuring cleanliness and or debris is not the issue, why not get some fine lapping compound and have at it with gentle manual action. I had this issue with the first valve on my W900 despite cleaning, did this and no looking back. Smooth action and compression remains super tight.

You might try - after a thorough cleaning as described above - NOT to use oil, but to use the water/silicone emulsion called Yamaha trombone slide oil. I works well on my piston tuba, before I needed to oil every day twice or three times, now I lubricate only every week. I wears out very slowly, and does not dissolve slide grease, cuse its water based.

I had a similar issue with my Eastman. After playing it for a few weeks, the sticky valve broke in, and they are all playing smooth and fast now.

Tried Wade's suggestion. Thoroughly. Including the ports between the casings. Despite the stuff that came out of the horn, the valves are still sluggish. For example, the 1st valve was fine after being oiled right before starting the 1st movement of the Broughton, and was noticably heavier by the end of the movement.

Maybe only a chem/sonic clean will do it?

bloke wrote:...or persistence.

Yup. Reporting back on my issue, it's already improved since my post weeks ago (just like Matt said it would).

It could be the temperature dropping too...

I keep an economy refill bottle of ultra pure valve oil next to where I sit to practice. I've been a big fan of the ultra pure on pistons for a long time. I read somewhere on here (Bloke?) that pouring a little ultra pure down the leadpipe of your instrument periodically can help keep things clean inside. I have found that this practice can also effectively oil the valves. I haven't had to unscrew the piston caps on my PCK for many months and the valves never stick. With Yamaha euphonium springs no less. I have no idea whether or not there is a difference between the ultra pure lamp oil vs. the valve oil beyond the price.

I had exactly the same problem as the OP. Although I'd owned the horn since 2001. Never had valve issues. When they felt a little sluggish I'd clean it with Dawn and it would be fine. Last year they got sluggish and stayed sluggish except for immediately after oiling. I'd been using the same oil since I bought the horn new, Holton, which I liked because you can buy it in bigger bottles and refill my network of small bottles, in each gig bag, in my truck, and in my locker at The Rat. After cleaning it several times I put some different oil on, Al Cass, and it was cured. Don't know if my saliva chemistry changed or they changed the formula of Holton valve oil but it's been over a year and they're still working great.Good luck with your valves. Ed

I am not a repair tech but I own several tubas that have MW piston valve sets. You may be using an oil that is too thin. I have had success with mixing Ultrapure Lamp Oil with a very small amount of 30W Mobile One. You may also want to try Hetman #3. Just my $.02.

-Matt

maybe the cylinders need some controlled wear to smooth out. (car metaphor)

When I was a kid, I had a cheep stencil sousaphone, it looked like basically a Conn.
Okay, the point was the 1st v always had a sticky spot that reared its head shortly after oiling. The valves were well broken in but no sort of lubricant would make much difference. Even an old brand, called "Willwork" that had cold cream in it to help with the seal on old and worn valves. Back then I had no access to a fine technician so I learned to live with it. Recently I sold the horn which had layed in the basement for 40 years. In the meantime I had become my own best technician (that was in my own mind) I reassessed the situation and said to myself "what the heck" and loaded the piston up with brasso and began the lapping process. Voila, smooth as silk and no little hang-up. Some how something, it may have been pressure from a tuning slide or a brace, but it took lapping to smooth down that microscopic bump. In that case it was not foreign matter but actually a physical issue. And... more than likely the problem may have been with the casing, not the piston.

I'd just add that I'd be suspicious of the original fitting of the valves in both of the aforementioned instruments. To rid yourself of continuing annoyance, I'd suggest that the pistons be carefully lapped. The owner or repairman should also check by hand to see if there is any kind of rough spot or burr at the intersection of the valve casing and the port. The nylon valve guides can develop a small plastic burr that is especially troublesome, but these can be carefully shaved-off with a sharp blade, and will make quite an improvement in the piston performance.

Whenever I've serviced tubas that have been lubricated with Ultrapure Lamp Oil, the have had unique-looking white deposits (looks like white cheese) inside, and although it has never been difficult to clean out, the sheer volume of accumulation has to have a detrimental effect on the performance of the instrument. I suppose that if you use lamp oil, and clean the instrument twice a month or more, it would not have accumulation issues.

Joe Hetman's philosophy is that you should use the heaviest viscosity valve oil possible and still have acceptable action (feel). His #1 Light piston is for soprano brass instruments only, and only those with tight tolerances. The #2 Piston Oil has a comparable viscosity to the standard petroleum distillates oils, and is what I use most of the time, for most piston instruments. For instruments with looser tolerances because of age or manufacturing process, I use the Hetman #3 Classic Piston. The #1 Light Piston, and Al Cass, are not a good idea for either tuba or euphonium. The automotive equivalent of using light piston oil on a tuba would be putting SAE 5W-20 motor oil in a Peterbilt, or a diesel locomotive. We play the heavy equipment, and need to apply proper protection to the valves.

Well, back to the workbench!