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are the valves the same between the king and conns? if so, what have you done about the valve noise and how have your results been?I assume Kyle Turner would have never played his Conn in The Phil. if the vavles were as noisy as the one i've been testdriving.I know about plastic valve guides,new felts-top and bottom,plastic coated springs.Anything else? For those who have done the above,how were your results?I've got one of these on order but it'll be a while.Anyone have the Soundwear bag made for these tubas?Thanks, Mike...

i have a brand new king 2431.
the valves are quite quite......they make minimal noise.
you'd really have to try a couple of them to feel out if the model is too loud for you or just one particular horn.

i had that problem w/my new 2341,....i went and had the valves lathed, or honed.....it cost about $100 for all 4 valves, but it was worth it.

Why should anyone have to have a repair on a NEW friggin' horn just to make it playable?

Would you buy a new car knowing that you would have to pay extra for a piston rebuild to make it driveable?

How about if UMI steps up and exerts a little, just a little quality control and manufacture their horns to work properly as is. I got a VMI 3302 (German) horn and it was perfect right out of the box, for a better price than the King.

I am a steadfast-Buy American-kind of guy, but it disturbs me to hear of BRAND NEW horns requiring "tweeking" just to make them play adequately. Am I crazy or does anyone else feel the same?

Kevin Miller wrote:I am a steadfast-Buy American-kind of guy, but it disturbs me to hear of BRAND NEW horns requiring "tweeking" just to make them play adequately. Am I crazy or does anyone else feel the same?

You're not crazy ...

there is about a 2k price difference in the 2341 and the vmi.I like the horn very much except for the clunky sounding valves.I tend to bang my valves down very firmly when i play.maybe its just me...Bloke,about how much would this valve rebuild cost and what would the benefits be?

MikeMason wrote:are the valves the same between the king and conns? if so, what have you done about the valve noise and how have your results been?I assume Kyle Turner would have never played his Conn in The Phil. if the vavles were as noisy as the one i've been testdriving.I know about plastic valve guides,new felts-top and bottom,plastic coated springs.Anything else? For those who have done the above,how were your results?I've got one of these on order but it'll be a while.Anyone have the Soundwear bag made for these tubas?Thanks, Mike...

Hi Mike,

So how do you like the 5XJ??? Which one are you testing? On my tuba Matt Walters installed the Besson felt bumpers. I have the original metal valve guides, but I DO have a set of plastic coated Yamaha valve springs (that I got from Lee Stofer). I purchased the springs for a smooth LIGHT action WITHOUT any bounce (the original springs bounced a little). As for the tolerances, Matt Walters had to do some "magic" to the valves the day I bought the horn. They were slow and sticky. Matt made them great!!!!

HeliconMan wrote:

Again, ask mudman. He only had #4 done, and he's as happy as a lark.

No Bloke, he's having more fun with his horn than he could with a bag of dirt and some water.

I resemble that remark . . .


Yours truly,
Mudman

Like Joe S. was telling you, you have a valve set that works very well for the BBb school market where the band directors can't hear valve noise over the noisy kids. The valve noise can be reduced in stages if you wish.

Stage 1; is a set of silencer pads. I charge $20 for the set. I know it's $.50 in material and feel free to make your own. But we have a couple hundred invested in punch sets, and it takes a little time to hammer out a few sets. They fit in the bottom of the vavle and in the bottom cap.

Stage 2; is a set of Yamaha vinyl coated valve springs for $12. They are larger in diameter and dont sit well in the unmodified bottom valve cap. The silencer pads solve that.

Stage 3; is a set of Besson synthetic felts ($1.50 each) plus thin Yamaha white felts unde the top valve cap. That quiets the up stroke. The Besson felt is a little too thick for in the figer button, so I use a felt from a Yamaha Euphonium finger button in the King figer buttons.

Stage 4; is nylon valve guides. I charge $2-3 for the guides. The install job is $20 for one or $40 for the set of four. I have to drill out the valve guide hole, tap it out to a metric thread, then fit the new nylon guide.

It's a great horn that needs just a few extra touches.

To the reply that was complaining about buying a new horn and having the noise problems, how do you explain it to a School Purchasing Agent that they should award the Purchase Order to the competing horn that was price $100 or more higher because it had quieter valves?

We complain about the cost of a tuba, but look at all that we get while a violinst spends more on just a good (not even great) Bow. And for what string players pay for thier main Axe, we brass players would expect a horn that plays itself, plus comes with a house, a maid, and a 24 hour open bar.

Matt Walters wrote:

To the reply that was complaining about buying a new horn and having the noise problems ... $100 or more higher because it had quieter valves?

All that granted. The described labor takes time and a craftsperson shall be paid good money for it. BUT...
Consider this:
From what Matt described, I take it the main deal is replacing LOUD parts by SILENT parts that differ in material.
Why is it that the manufacturer doesn´t use the superior material in the first place ? Those 100 $ would be reduced to the difference in material cost, because the technician at the plant will need the same time to assemble the valveset no matter what material those pads, springs, felts and valve guides were made of. I don´t think those will be harmed that much more than the crap-material ones by HS-kid-abusive handling, neither.
So let´s generously assume that the extra cost in material amounts to 10$. (No way those special springs cost 3$ a piece when a manufacturer buys them, and you have to subtract the cost of the crappy material here).
To my opinion it doesn´t matter AT ALL if I have to spend 4000 or 4010 bucks for a brandnew horn. Those 10 bucks mean one less night at Wendy´s, at the most. The CLANK-CLANK will last forever, otherwise.

Our customers pay several million dollars for ONE of our excavators (depending on special equipment). They surely would raise hell if we expected them to cope with the equivalent of CLANK-y valves. AND, you can be dang sure our technicians would be out on the construction site fixing this type of flaws in no time, if it really were THAT type of an issue.
As a buyer of an xx000 $ instrument, I´d have zero tolerance towards wrong pads or felts or springs put into my horn, when the good ones would have cost three beers.

Sorry ´bout the rant.

From King's point of view-"we are back ordered 3-4 mos,everything we make or could possibly make is pre-sold as far as the eye can see, so what's the problem". Just want to get mine, have the mods done, and play the thing...,personally,even after the mods i think the king is a bargain...

the king is a bargain

Yes,
Relatively speaking, the Conn/King tubas are a bargain. Steinway-Conn-Selmer-LeBlanc are producing tubas that will work, and quite well, in a school environment, and is upgrade-friendly if you are interested in doing so.
The valves do not fit to the tolerances of top European professional tubas or that of the Kanstul tubas, but their slightly loose fit accomplishes two things. First, the parts are manufactured to a tolerance where the valves can simply be inserted into the valve casings without a lot (maybe no) hand-fitting by lapping, which saves a lot of time and cleanup at the factory, and makes it less expensive to produce. Second, a little extra tolerance allows the valves to keep working when others would be sticking because of being dirty.
My take on King/Conn tuba upgrading it as follows;

1) Thorough cleaning, and if any lapping needs to be done, it is done first.

2) Re-tap the valve guide hole threads, and install nylon guides.

3) Chuck the bottom caps in the lathe, and widen the spring channel to fit
Yamaha valve springs.

4) Do a precision valve alignment. I carefully measure everything, then
select appropriate felts and corks. I like to use a very thin felt under
both the bottom caps and finger buttons, with either real or synthetic
cork making up the difference in thickness. This is normally
reasonably quiet, and provides a firm feel with no bounce.

5) It is also pretty easy to vent any pistons desired while doing the other
processes.

So, if you want to buy cheap and upgrade, buy a King/Conn. If you want to pay a little more, buy American and not have to upgrade, there is the Kanstul option. These days, either option is a lot cheaper for Americans than buying a European or Japanese instrument, but I think there'll continue to be a market niche for each.