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bloke wrote:' arguably, would be one of the easier models to cut to C.
Lord knows there are plenty of them out there.

bloke "nope, don't ask me."

BBb and CC 186s are available everywhere new and used in condition from sterling to run over by a bus. Until relatively recently, few choices and little availability of 6/4 and 4/4 CCs. There are/were lots of BBb 6/4 and 4/4 tubas with three worn out upright valves in band room closets for conversion. There is/was a demand for 6/4 and 4/4 CC conversions. Little/no demand to convert 186BBb to 186CC.

Got any 1291s up there?

bloke wrote:...??

What's the first C tuba that EVERYONE here tells EVERYONE ELSE to get?

What's easy to find on eBay? ...a beater-to-nice 186 Bb for $700 to $1800.

How much does a new 186 C cost? about $8700

Unless a person is a do-it-yourselfer, a tech would have to do the work and, at that, a tech with some skills or it will come out a mess. Add onto that the cost of fixing the dents of the BBb and it comes out somewhere near the price of a used CC186 good to go. If you did this sort of thing, you'd charge, what, $1000-$1500? Plus the $1500 for the 186 core and you have somewhere near $2500-$3000. Plus valves and/or linkages which, on a $1500 horn, could need attention. You can try the factory built CC. Heaven only knows what the cut 186 is going to sound like.

I've done the "get cheap beater, get it fixed up" thing and it can turn out poorly financially. For a common instrument, get one ready to go or just needs a little work.

If you are a do-it-yourselfer, all bets are off. It could be good, it could be bad, it could be a pile of scrap.

I've seen C-cut Bessons and Yamaha 321's on UK ebay. The secondary bottom bow is much shorter/higher. If they were the greatest thing ever they would have been priced higher than they were.

Some of these Ebay 186's, if you can rescue them PERIOD you've done a herculean feat.

Don't know about cutting the Besson. Just a "fletcher cut" on an Eb CAN make them pretty awful if not done right.

Seems to me that there are some Chinese-made CC 186 clones that also play pretty well.

Art Hovey wrote:Seems to me that there are some Chinese-made CC 186 clones that also play pretty well.

+1

bloke wrote:All joking aside...
If someone were to cut a 186Bb to C, match up the tapers, and replace the mouthpipe and tuning slide dogleg with the C parts from Miraphone, and shorten the valveset, I'd wager that it would play just fine.

There's the answer to your original question. I don't think I would make the investment into the leadpipe and dogleg just to reinvent a Miraphone. Of course... if there was a dramatic improvement over a REAL Miraphone CC... it might make sense.

Maybe they are perfect!?

If Arnold Jacobs were to have had a 6/4 rotary miraphone during his time with Chicago, I'm sure we would see more people doing this to try and get that "classic dark Grand Rapids miraphone sound"