Mouthpiece for vintage Eb tuba

[LisaSimpson]

Hi. My name is Antonio, from Spain. I do not play tuba; I play saxophone since I was 9 years old, and as I said in my presentation post, I am fascinated with family's tuba.

I've just bought a vintage Dutch Eb tuba of the fifties, with 3 valves: Eb Ansingh & Co (Zwolle).

I know the wide and personal world of mouthpieces, because I bought around 20 for my baritone sax to find my sound, but which mouthpiece do you advice me to buy? Brand, model... Could you advice me with this matter, please? Maybe this vintage tuba has a small shank.

Thank you very much for your great help.
Antonio

[Lee Stofer]

If there is a mouthpiece with the instrument now, I would suggest taking measurements of the shank, and compare it to a more modern tuba mouthpiece shank, and also to a bass trombone shank, to determine if it is an odd size. If it is an odd size, you will be more limited in your mouthpiece choices, and if it is a standard size, you should try different mouthpieces until you find a good fit. Generally, a moderately-sized mouthpiece, not excessively large or small, with a shallow-to-medium depth bowl will yield good results. I would avoid really deep-cup mouthpieces or funnel-shaped mouthpieces with an older Eb tuba such as that.

[Donn]

In case that bass trombone reference wasn't clear, the semi-standard tuba small shank is about the same as the trombone large shank. Almost all bass trombones are standard large shank, as are many tenor trombones. If a bass trombone mouthpiece fits, you could even use it to get started playing, though eventually of course you'd do better to get a real tuba mouthpiece.

My small shank tuba mouthpiece is a Denis Wick 5. Since Denis WIck is the only widely available brand of small shank mouthpieces, it arguably defines the standard. It seats farther into my Eb tuba receiver, than a standard bass trombone mouthpiece.

If you're sure it's a small shank receiver, then I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Denis Wick 5, or I'm sure the 4 size is fine as well. I don't know what's easily available in Europe, I believe Josef Klier makes small shank mouthpieces. If it's a large shank, then just about any small mouthpiece, particularly if it's presented as a "bass tuba" mouthpiece. I think you will find that the mouthpiece doesn't make nearly as much difference on the tuba, as it does on the saxophone. For one thing, the tuning problem where the high range and low range respond differently to mouthpiece adjustments, is unique to the saxophone. Some tuba players notice mouthpiece effects on pitch, one reason for recommending a small mouthpiece, but it isn't like what happens with the saxophone. Nor is there anything like the range of tonal variation.

[Dan Bradley]

Yeah, you may need to find a small-shank mouthpiece (smaller than the standard American). I think this is frequently called an English-style shank. Denis Wick makes some, as listed above. I would try a standard American shank & see if it sticks out too far. If so, you probably need the English shank.

Dan Bradley

[LisaSimpson]

Dear Lee, Donn and Dan,

Thank you very much for your kind help and advices about the shank and mouthpieces.

I don't know if D. Wick 5 or even 4 are the mouthpiece for a beginner as myself, maybe are too large, because I guess a higher number means a larger mouthpiece.

About to check the shank diameter, someone tells me to place any standard shank mouthpiece into the receiver, and it should go in about 3 cm or so, but if only goes in about 1 to 2 cm then the horn has a small shank horn, isn't?

Thanks again for your help; thank you very much.

Antonio

[GC]

The Wick 5 is their smallest tuba mouthpiece. The 4 is larger, but is still fairly small and should work well on a small horn.

[imperialbari]

What the above posters said about the stems/shanks is true.

Found some photos of an Ansing Eb tuba in my brass gallery. Looks like a smallish instrument like those seen from Schenkelaars and other Dutch & Belgian makers.

If you know a bass trombone player, then let him play your tuba. His mouthpiece likely will fit. If he produces the sound you would like to produce yourself, then a bass trombone mouthpiece might be the right thing for you.

My preferred bassbone mouthpiece is the Yamaha Yeo signature Model. Quite costly wIth its good gold plating. The Yamaha replica version of the same mouthpiece with a good silver plating is more affordable. Can’t find either model at the Thomann site right now, even if I bought my own replica sample from them. The rounded rim of the Schilcke 60 is not my preferred type of rim, but the cup is good.

Using a bass trombone mouthpiece for a small Eb tuba is not all that mad. The original mouthpiece that came with my small Besson Eb from 1870 was corroded and damaged, so I didn’t use it. But it clearly has the size of a modern bass trombone mouthpiece.

Klaus

[LisaSimpson]

Thank you very much to everyone for the advices and the explanations. It will help me.

I think I'll buy a Denis Wick 4, but if I consider the option of bass trombone mouthpiece, which brand, model, number...? The larger mouthpiece?

Thanks.
Antonio

[LisaSimpson]

By the way, the seller has sent me a picture of the shank. I dont't know if you can see if it is the standard or the small one.

[Donn]

I think I'll buy a Denis Wick 4, but if I consider the option of bass trombone mouthpiece, which brand, model, number...? The larger mouthpiece?

Sure, yes, the largest available. The Yeo replica Klaus mentioned for example is near tuba size. For what it's worth, a list of trombone mouthpieces follows, sorted by published internal diameter. The Yeo isn't on it, but it should be about the same as the Schilke 60. (Don't take published diameter too seriously - for example, rumor has it the Bach 1G is really pretty near the size of the Schilke 60. And speaking of these two mouthpieces - Klaus mentions a common complaint, very large cups cut into standard trombone mouthpiece blanks, leaving room for only the narrowest rim. I guess most of the rest these mouthpieces use larger blanks and have normal rims, but I don't really know a thing about it.)

Klaus presents a rationale for deciding - the sound you would like to produce - and I'd like to offer a footnote to that: a small tuba like this is a very versatile instrument that can be, functionally speaking, a tuba, or something else. Maybe a big euphonium. It can sound "good" in either case, the difference being its value in a musical ensemble. Lots of other brass instruments can serve in that "something else" category; in the first, really only the tuba. For me, I like to use a tuba mouthpiece on my Eb tuba.

31.5 Elliott 124
31 Elliott 122
30.5 Elliott 120
30.15 Marcinkiewicz 107
30.07 Marcinkiewicz 106
30 Ferguson 2A
30 Elliott 118
30 Bach 30CB
29.50 Josef Klier P03
29.5 Laskey 95D
29.5 Elliott 116
29.5 Greg Black 0D
29.44 Marcinkiewicz 105
29.4 Griego .25
29.3 Laskey 93D
29.2 Elliott 115
29.1 Rath B1 MF
29.06 G&W Nor'easter
29.03 Schilke 60
29.03 Schilke M6.0
29 Elliott 114
28.96 Hammond 21
28.9 Rath CB1B
28.85 Curry 60X
28.8 Rath CB2B
28 Bach 1G

[LisaSimpson]

Dear Donn,

Thank you very much for the valuable and helpful information and advices and for the list of trombone mouthpieces sorted by published internal diameter. If I have any other option I will consider to buy the mouthpiece of the bass trombone, but I would like to use a tuba mouthpiece.

By the way, I am checking the mouthpieces Wick 3 and Wick 3L and there is no difference: 

DENIS WICK 3 Bass Tuba mouthpiece in silver plate (small shank).
Diameter: 47.47mm
Cup Diameter: 31.25mm
Rim Width:*8.11mm
Bore Size: 8.78mm
Back Bore:*Large Barrel

DENIS WICK 3 L Bass Tuba mouthpiece in silver plate (large shank).
Diameter: 47.47mm
Cup Diameter: 31.25mm
Rim Width: 8.11mm
Bore Size: 8.78mm
Back Bore: Large Barrel

Thanks.
Antonio

[Donn]

The difference is exactly the focus of your interest: 3 is small shank, 3L is large shank.

You don't suppose the seller may include mouthpiece that appears in the picture? Or maybe there's some identifying information on it. I bet a quarter it's a copy of a Bach trombone mouthpiece.

If I might ask, what mouthpiece do you use for baritone saxophone?

[imperialbari]

By the way, the seller has sent me a picture of the shank. I dont't know if you can see if it is the standard or the small one.

Without having the tuba in my hands this of course is pure speculation, but my immediate visual impression says this is a large shank receiver.

Klaus

[LisaSimpson]

I have not yet received the tuba, and yes, the mouthpiece that appears in the pic is included, but I want to buy my own mouthpiece, and preferably a tuba mouthpiece, probably a new Denis Wick. When I check the tuba I' ll inform you about the brand/model of mouthpiece, because sure you are right.

Of course. For my baritone sax (Yanagisawa --I have also an alto Selmer and curved soprano Thomann) I use a rubber Vandoren V5 and an Otto Link 5 and Berg Larsen 105, both of metal.

Donn, thank you very much for your kind help. I am really learning about this new world for me.

[LisaSimpson]

By the way, the seller has sent me a picture of the shank. I dont't know if you can see if it is the standard or the small one.

Without having the tuba in my hands this of course is pure speculation, but my immediate visual impression says this is a large shank receiver.

Klaus

Dear Klaus,

I also want to get out of doubt, but I have to wait a couple of weeks. You are the first one that think it is a standard (large) shank and not the smaller one. I'm a beginner on this topic, so I do not know if will know to check the shank easily and clearly.

Thank you very much.

[MikeW]

If you measure the internal diameter of your instrument's receiver (and convert to fractions of an inch), you can look up the correct shank size in this table:

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/shanks/index.asp

[LisaSimpson]

If you measure the internal diameter of your instrument's receiver (and convert to fractions of an inch), you can look up the correct shank size in this table:

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/shanks/index.asp

It is great Mike! It is really helpful to know if the shank is the small or the large one. Thank you very much!