Used Chinese Tubas

[Watchman]

As I browse the forums, I notice that there are now so many more tuba manufacturers than there were when I was younger, and that many are "Chinese tubas", and that a bunch of these companies have their own "CSO York" style copy. People are buying these now, which means in a few years, they will be showing up on the used market. I've seen some of the Chinese 6-valve F tubas sell for about a grand. How cheap might we expect to see these 6/4 CC's get?

I'm eagerly awaiting the day I can have my own CSO York for a four digit price.

[Watchman]

Well, I meant low four digits. Like 3 to 4K. Is that something that might be possible?

[proam]

I once mentioned jokingly to a friend that the horns I was carrying around were worth about 3 times as much as the car they were in. My wife was there and failed to appreciate the humor...

[proam]

OK, which is the better deal -- a new Wessex Mahler at around $3000 or a Mack 410 around $2100 vs a used Miraphone say $2500-3500? You might not have the 5th valve on an older Miraphone, for example.

Or does this come down to "try it and decide for yourself" which is not always easy to do.

[pjv]

I disagree in the sense that this conversation is too general. You have excellent 186's and you have dogs.
Whats important?
Only the money?
Intonation?
Valve quality?
Durability.
All these companies are improving their quality. Miraphone has been around a lot longer so their "vintage models" all have their pro's and con's.
As I once saw here on TN:
Buy
Try
Sell
Repeat
Or something like that.
And try as much as possible.

[The Big Ben]

OK, which is the better deal -- a new Wessex Mahler at around $3000 or a Mack 410 around $2100 vs a used Miraphone say $2500-3500? You might not have the 5th valve on an older Miraphone, for example.

Or does this come down to "try it and decide for yourself" which is not always easy to do.

The elusive 20 year old used Miraphone 186 at $2500-3500, used and taken care of for four or five years will sell for pretty much what you paid for it. New shiny things are nice and shouldn't need mechanical repairs if you take good care of them but less of the cost will return to you when you sell them. 1/2 to 1/4 of original price?

[Michael Bush]

a bunch of these companies have their own "CSO York" style copy.

A bunch seems like an exaggeration. By my count we are up to two, and neither is cheap by Chinese standards.

[Dan Schultz]

..... The way I look at it, Chinese horns hold their value better than german horns do. If you buy a Mack brass 210 for $1800, it's pretty easy to find a buyer for it for $1400 to 1500 at any time. you're losing less than 25% of the value of the horn in depreciation, which is a smaller number than I've seen elsewhere. When was the last time you saw a used Miraphone 186 sell for more than $5000? Want to check how much they sell for new?

Not looking for an argument here but most of the German horns I see going for $2,500 to $3,000 these days are well over thirty-years-old and the used price is MORE than they sold for new. At least that's what I usually sell a de-bashed-up 70's era Miraphone for.

Certainly, it's easier to sell a used Chinese horn for $1,400. But... what (pray tell) is the buyer getting?

[Dan Schultz]

... What I'm saying is if someone bought a brand new 186 3 years ago for $9000, what could they sell it for now?

I understand what you are saying. The dollar speaks the loudest. It's difficult to convince someone to spend $7,000 on a three-year-old Miraphone even though the value is there when a NEW Chinese horn can be purchased for $3,000.

Being the guy who is called upon to repair the Chinese stuff... I can make a VERY good argument but the dollar still speaks the loudest.

I think a well cared for three year old Miraphone WOULD be worth not much less than the current retail price.

[Ken Crawford]

a bunch of these companies have their own "CSO York" style copy.

A bunch seems like an exaggeration. By my count we are up to two, and neither is cheap by Chinese standards.

BMB, Eastman and Wessex. Three.

[groth]

The way I look at it, Chinese horns hold their value better than german horns do.

That's because they don't start with much to begin with. Any "playable" 4 valve horn in good condition should sell for at least $1,000-1,500 on any day, and when you're paying $1800 or so new that price doesn't have much room to fall out of that demand pricing range. It's just that some instruments are inflated to begin with so they "lose" value on the used market due to cheaper newer Chinese horns being sold new and used between $1k-$2k. Like buying a $2000 used car and reselling it for the same price range you got it for, it's probably always going to sell and change hands for $2000 or so until it completely dies, then maybe $200.