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MAW

Postby bigboymusic » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:06 pm

I understand the physics... What do you all that have them notice in your playing????
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Re: MAW

Postby Steve Marcus » Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:16 pm

In which horns have the MAW valves made the most significant difference, and in which ones has the difference been negligible?
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Re: MAW

Postby Tubanomicon » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:29 pm

I installed the MAW valves on my 45SLP. They made a HUGE difference in the horn's intonation and accuracy. The lower registers, especially around that dreaded low C, are much more solid than they were before. At the same time, the upper registers tend to sing more. (Side note: I purchased the valves without any pearls on the finger buttons. This gives the buttons a concave design, allowing the fingers to settle into the buttons. It makes me as the player feel closer to the tuba and more in control, which even if just psychologically further improves my playing.)
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Re: MAW

Postby tylerferris1213 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:33 pm

This isn't my horn, but a friend got to try them in his B&S PT-606P. EVERYTHING got better. The low register came out like butter, the high range (while it was never bad) was noticeably easier. The best way I can describe what MAW valves do to a horn is this: It's similar to playing a horn with slightly misaligned valves, and then playing it after the valves are aligned properly. Everything gets better. I hope that helps.
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Re: MAW

Postby the elephant » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:52 pm

Imagine both nostrils of your nose being plugged with boogers. Cover your mouth and try to breathe.

Now clean out your nose really well. Cover your mouth and try to breathe.

There you go. That is the difference.

And yes, I am quite serious.

:lol:
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Re: MAW

Postby YORK-aholic » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:31 am

the elephant wrote:Imagine both nostrils of your nose being plugged with boogers. Cover your mouth and try to breathe.

Now clean out your nose really well. Cover your mouth and try to breathe.

There you go. That is the difference.

And yes, I am quite serious.

:lol:


Now imagine that same analogy from the viewpoint of an elephant! :lol:
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Re: MAW

Postby cambrook » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:12 am

I'm interested to read of Tubanomicom's experience with his 45SLP, it was different to mine.

I tried the MAW valves in my 45SLP and found that some of the character of the sound was lost.
It didn't ruin the horn or anything, it just sounded more like many other piston F tubas that are out there. I agree with Tubanomicom about the improvement in the low register, but on balance I felt that the minuses outweighed the pluses.

Then I had the idea of trying just the 4th MAW valve, leaving the original 1st, 2nd & 3rd valves. I really like this arrangement on my 45SLP ! It gives all of the benefits in the lower register around the C - Bb and the character of the sound of the horn is unchanged. I'll be buying a 4th MAW piston soon.

I suggest that the MAW valves are a great improvement in some horns, but not all. I definitely wouldn't assume that they will be a good idea without trying them first.

FWIW - I've played a 6450 with them and thought they were great in that tuba, and a friend loves them in his Thor.

As always, YMMV :-)
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Re: MAW

Postby Steve Marcus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:34 am

cambrook wrote:I suggest that the MAW valves are a great improvement in some horns, but not all. I definitely wouldn't assume that they will be a good idea without trying them first.


How does one go about that, especially if the horn is not a widely-sold model? Ordering MAW valves is more or less a "one and done" affair, that is, custom work that can't be returned or used in another horn, n'est-ce pas?
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Re: MAW

Postby cambrook » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:37 am

As far as I know MAW valves are only available for the MW "big" valves that are used on most (if not all) current production MW horns. Steve, as you're in Chicago I'd expect that you could find someone there who has a set that you could try in your horn?
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Re: MAW

Postby Steve Marcus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:40 pm

cambrook wrote:As far as I know MAW valves are only available for the MW "big" valves that are used on most (if not all) current production MW horns.


So MAW valves would not be available for the longer valves found in compensating tubas, correct?

Since the 6/4 CC that I'm playing is a rotary horn, the tuba in which I would try the MAW valves is 4/4 Nirschl CC built by Walter in Geretsried in 1994. Would the piston valves in my horn be the same as those found in current MW horns?

Steve, as you're in Chicago I'd expect that you could find someone there who has a set that you could try in your horn?


Perhaps. Anyone?
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Re: MAW

Postby joh_tuba » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:57 pm

The benefit of the off the shelf MAW valves is that they are a drop in replacement for stock MW pistons.

HOWEVER, it is my understanding that Martin Wilke can modify most valves(upon inspection for viability). The downside being that there is no going back if you don't like how it changes your horn. No clue regarding price vs the off the shelf MAW valves.

I suspect that Nirschl sourced(still sources) his valves from someone other than MW BUT it wouldn't be that hard to check if you can find a friend that has a MW piston horn.
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Re: MAW

Postby bort » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:31 pm

Replacing only one valve as MAW? We are starting to sound like trumpet players... :P
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Re: MAW

Postby tubalamb » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:32 pm

Would the piston valves in my horn (a 4/4 Nirschl) be the same as those found in current MW horns?


Steve, no they would not be the same. I have a recent model of the MW 2182-W, and the valves are actually bigger cylinders than both of my 4/4 Nirschls.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Martin Wilk can make custom sets of MAW valves upon request.
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Re: MAW

Postby roweenie » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:40 pm

I believe they are being manufactured by Meinlschmidt in Germany, although I'm certain that Mr. Wilk can modify certain piston valves (ie. King .687) as a custom job.

http://www.jm-gmbh.de/html/e_meinlschmi ... lacem.html

Why not contact him directly and just tell him what you want to do?

http://www.mawvalve.com/
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Re: MAW

Postby TubaDude » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:37 am

Martin is a true valve engineering wizard. I just had my Holton TU330S reworked by Martin, while he doesn't make a valveset specifically for that horn, he was able to relieve the stuffiness and back pressure I was experiencing with that horn along with making some much needed structural changes to tighten up the horn's performance. He's has two more of horns now, the 52J he does make a valveset for, so I can't wait to try that horn based off of the 1000 percent improvement in the Holton.

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Re: MAW

Postby Tom » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:31 am

The authority of MAW valves is, to completely state the obvious, Martin Wilk. He can certainly answer any questions that anyone might have about MAW valves and what sort of modifications he does and does not do to pistons that are not his "stock" designs. He's very easy to get in touch with via phone or email and will clearly lay out the product details and the pricing. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but sometimes it seems that Tubenetters are willing to go anywhere other than the source for information about a particular product or service. I've always found that a bit puzzling especially when the source is accessible and ready and willing to help, answer questions, or make a sale. I know we all like to discuss tuba stuff here, myself included, but if you really want to know everything there is to know about MAW valves, one call is all it takes. Martin will tell you just about anything you'd ever want to know about them.

The valves are indeed made by Meinlschmidt. Martin offers them for B&S/M-W "big valves" and for King, Eastman and a few others. If you want them for your non-big valve tuba, call Martin and talk to him about it. He may have a Meinlschmidt made MAW set for your tuba on hand.

Also worth mentioning is that Martin is now offering his MAW piston sets with titanium (yes, you read that right...titanium) valve stems included along with a set of his lightweight valve buttons (aluminum) with a variety of finish options and pearls IF YOU BUY FROM HIM. I got a set of all three items (pistons, included titanium stems, buttons of my choice) a month or so ago directly from Martin for less than the price that is published online. Your mileage may vary, but it seems that the price fluctuates a little based on the current exchange rate. In other words, contact Martin directly for the best package and price when you are ready to buy.

I put a set of his valves in a 45-SLP after thinking about doing it for a long time. I really like them. I liked the horn just fine before, but don't feel anything was lost by going to the MAW valves. The horn is a little more open and even easier to play down low. Overall sound characteristics seem the same, though I'd say response throughout the horn has gotten better. Mid and upper register playing seems about the same to me, honestly, perhaps a bit more open. Overall the horn is a little more "even" than it was before, which I actually like. My set dropped right in with the exception of having to do a little work on guide #2. Other than that, I was able to oil them up and play on them right away without any issues.
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Re: MAW

Postby joshealejo » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:09 am

Tom wrote:The valves are indeed made by Meinlschmidt. Martin offers them for B&S/M-W "big valves" and for King, Eastman and a few others.


So there are MAW valves for CC Eastman 632?
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Re: MAW

Postby Tom » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:15 am

joshealejo wrote:
Tom wrote:The valves are indeed made by Meinlschmidt. Martin offers them for B&S/M-W "big valves" and for King, Eastman and a few others.


So there are MAW valves for CC Eastman 632?


My understanding is yes. When I ordered my valves, Martin asked what the make and model of the tuba was they were intended for as he said that he also makes them for "King, Eastman, etc." and wanted to be sure he sent the right set to me.
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Re: MAW

Postby bort » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:26 am

Tons of great information here!

True or false -- Martin has some kind of something in mind for rotary valves, too. Thought I heard a rumor about this before, but can't quite remember for sure.
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Re: MAW

Postby bigboymusic » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:19 pm

Just to be clear on one thing. I completely trust Martin Wilk's abilities. I know how many people feel about his work and I trust those people very much. I also understand how they work and what they do within the body of the Horn. The reason I throw it out to the forum is that like anything in our free-market society I want to hear from the consumers as well. I like to know what people feel these things are doing in the field and how individual players respond to them. So yes, when I look for deep answers into the instruments I do go to the source, but sometimes when you're going to drop a lot of money on something you want to hear from others, not necessarily the person selling the items......
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