career

Dylan King · Post by **Dylan King** » Tue May 31, 2005 12:27 am

Grades are unimportant. So is college. Get out of it what you can, but stick to the music if that's what you dig. Man.

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Tue May 31, 2005 12:37 am

Is there any doubt in your mind you'll ever do anything other than play professionally, or do odd jobs to get by? If so, grades are very important.

Others may disagree, but if you can't keep good grades and maintain a high skill-level on your horn, you're probably not going to be a successful pro. Grades are indicative of work ethic more so than brains. Getting both right shows good time management skills.

Focusing solely on playing is putting all your eggs in one basket, and it's quite a gamble. If you take it, we will all wish you luck...

Tom Holtz · Post by **Tom Holtz** » Tue May 31, 2005 1:23 am

Well said, bloke.

I have to balance my Marine Band duties, freelance playing here in town, traveling to the occasional jazz festival, a wife and three young boys who are growing up quickly, a house that needs a lot of work, and I actually practice (gasp) once in a while. Truth is that I don't balance all of this very well. My time management skills suck. They suck, and any or all of the above can suffer at any time because of it. Yeah, you need the playing skills to get a gig, but keep the grades up. If nothing else, you gotta learn to keep it all going at once. That ain't playing skills, it's life skills. PSY 101 "Intro To Psychology" M-W-F 8:30-9:30 may not be that important to you later on in life, but having your s--t together *will* be that important, and more. I'm re-learning this every day.

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:18 am

MellowSmokeMan wrote:Grades are unimportant. So is college. Get out of it what you can, but stick to the music if that's what you dig. Man.

MSM has (taking him at face value, since I have no reason to do otherwise) made a successful career in music without finishing college. I congratulate him. With due respect, though, in addition to talent and hard work, he has a parent "in the business" that has most likely at least helped him get the attention of the right people. In any case, for every success story like his there are a hundred young folks who bet the pot on making it as a musician, and wind up selling shoes or washing windows. Did I say a hundred? Probably more like a thousand. Your odds of success as a musician may or may not dramatically improve with a college degree, but your odds of landing on your feet if you DON'T make it sure do. And with respect, again, to those few who slack off in High School and still get it together in college, your odds of success in college are best predicted by your success as a HS student. So balance study and grades now. This shouldn't be that hard; you're out of school by 3:30 or 4:00, right? That gives you at least 6 hours before bedtime. Study for two, play for two, practice (with a plan!) for two. Some nights you'll have to borrow from practice time to study; other nights you'll be able to "pay it back". Get up in the morning and practice a half hour before school. On the weekends, practice two hours in the morning and two hours in the evening. If that much DISCIPLINED practice doesn't get you there, sacrificing your grades probably won't, either.
____________________________
Joe Baker, who advises considering SJSUW's warning about career-ending injuries.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue May 31, 2005 9:50 am

FWIW, my grades got me as much scholarship money in college as my playing did. Without keeping a high average every semester, I would have had to use the money I bought my F tuba and bass trombone with to pay tuition instead.

Food for thought....

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:00 am

Studies are vital IMO. If you're planning to play pro that's great. But if you can't for some reason get that gig that you can live off of then you need a plan B. And I believe your education will decide what that plan B is.

Ralph

adam0408 · Post by **adam0408** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:06 am

It is interesting to note that state colleges, especially those in minnesota (and I assume other states as well) are offering less scholorship and grant money. Tuition has gone up over 40 percent while I have been in college. The hikes in tuition are at an average 11-14% per year. As tuition goes up, grant money has now been forced to stay the same. There is a $2500 dollar cap on the amount of grants that any one student can get per semester. To put this in perspective: Sophmore year, spring semester, I paid a total of about $200 to the college for my tuition, because the state was so generous to me. This year, spring semester I think I paid more like $3500. That is some percent increase that I cant even fathom. When I get my tuition bill I always feel like somebody stuck their hand in my pocket and took all the money out and simultaneously called me a loser and said I would never succeed at life.

Grades don't matter for financial reasons anymore. The only thing you really have to worry about around here is not losing your loan money. The government is glad to give out gobs of that. To not lose your loan money only requires that you maintain a 2.0 average. This means there isnt much pressure financially to maintain good grades these days. Perhaps in private colleges its different, but thats the way things are all over the state of MN school system.

This seems to be the state of higher education today. The government no longer cares about us, even though to get a decent job these days it seems you must have at least a four year degree.

Kind of off topic I know, but I needed to let that out.

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Tue May 31, 2005 10:28 am

adam0408 wrote:... The government no longer cares about us,...

When did it?

And why should it?

Besides, you say yourself that the government will hand out gobs of student loan money, in addition to $5000 per year in grant money. That's significant largesse, if you ask me, especially considering that the general welfare isn't notably enhanced by the addition of more college-trained tuber players (though one's right to pursue happiness certainly includes the right to try to be a tuber player).

What I don't understand is how someone who has this golden opportunity -- it sounds like a college degree that will wind up costing less than $20,000 -- would allow themselves to have a GPA in the low 2's! I hope, Adam0408, that you aren't doing that. People who have any interest in developing their own full potential surely would avail themselves of the opportunity to LEARN some art, literature, history, science, mathematics, economics, etc., AND to give themselves that "Plan B" mentioned earlier.
______________________________
Joe Baker, who is sympathetic to the challenges of paying for college, but cautions that one must care for ONESELF, rather than expecting to be cared FOR.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Tue May 31, 2005 11:52 am

Joe Baker wrote:
adam0408 wrote:... The government no longer cares about us,...
When did it?

And why should it?

Besides, you say yourself that the government will hand out gobs of student loan money, in addition to $5000 per year in grant money.

Boy that grant money would sure be nice.

But I did what I had to do and got myself in quite a bit of debt. But with that loan money comes tuition and books for the year and a tuba. My only beef is how the government takes a few numbers and decides how much your family is going to pay.

Oh well..

Ralph

rascaljim · Post by **rascaljim** » Tue May 31, 2005 12:45 pm

I remember one of my conductors at one of the small conservatories I went to had a perspective on this... Basically over the years he had thought that talent was the biggest thing for helping someone win a job so he admitted people to the school based on talent. Over the years he's actually moved away from that to trying to find hard workers. Because you can have all the talent in the world but unless you're willing to put in the time you won't make it. In this light grades would help because it shows that you are a hard worker. Besides... great musicians are usually very intellectual people... the guys in the top orchestras are there not just because they can blow the walls down, but because they are smart as well.
Jim

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue May 31, 2005 3:10 pm

TubaNewsRose wrote:Finally, the answer to my big question (What do I want to do?) became more clear: Yes I want to do some tuba, but at the same time, what I really enjoy is working with computers and working on the internet.

My career also involved playing AND comp sci/internet; if you want to support yourself in the manner to which you have become accustomed while working on your way up for your career, decent+ grades are more than just optional.

Tubaryan12 · Post by **Tubaryan12** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:19 pm

Joe Baker wrote:

adam0408 wrote:
... The government no longer cares about us,...

When did it?

And why should it?

It may not care, but like my dog, it better act like it cares because we feed it and the day the dog can't even do that.....then its time to get a new dog (or vote the bums out)

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:27 pm

Oh, the government does act like it cares! At least it tries very hard to act that way. The problem is that it still DOESN'T care. Dogs don't just act like they care. They do care. At least that has been my experience, anyway.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Tue May 31, 2005 4:46 pm

I've NEVER had a dog that didn't give unconditional love. I'd choose dogs over people. They're loyal, honest, and just great beings. If there is such a thing as reincarnation I want to be a dog. And not the kind that my friends call me.

Ralph

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:14 pm

Tubaryan12 wrote:Joe Baker wrote:
adam0408 wrote:
... The government no longer cares about us,...

When did it?

And why should it?
It may not care, but like my dog, it better act like it cares because we feed it and the day the dog can't even do that.....then its time to get a new dog (or vote the bums out)

I know I'm on thin ice here (politics & all) so I'll keep this brief and friendly-like

My meaning is this: "government" exists to balance competing interests -- in this case, the interest young people have in a free education, and the interest taxpayers have in keeping their money. "It" is an institution, not a person. "It" doesn't "care"; it "governs" -- and that's a good thing. For the government to "care" for one group, it would have to do so at the expense of the other. Giving everyone a free education, free meals, free healthcare, etc. by taking all of Bill Gates' and Warren Buffett's money would be great for the lower-income folks, but would unduly burden Bill & Warren. Likewise, a zero-tax system would relieve the burden from tax-payers but would leave us without defense and essential government services. There's a big knob in Washington that determines where on the scale we are between those two extremes; all the shoutin' in DC is to figure out where the knob ought to be set. There is room for legitimate disagreement over this setting, of course, and that's the area into which I'll refrain from venturing.

Ultimately, the government isn't there to "care" about any particular person. It is there to mediate, to protect, and to serve the general welfare. "It" didn't "care" for my great-grandfathers, or my grandfathers, or my father. "It" doesn't "care" for me, and "it" won't care for my children. It protects me from enemies, foreign and domestic; it provides a means by which I may mediate disputes; it coins money; it builds and maintains certain services and infrastructure -- airports, highways and the like -- that have been determined by concensus to be impractical for private enterprise (though there is room for disagreement as to which of these ARE impractical for private enterprise) and it provides sufficient law and order to allow me to live a happy and prosperous life, should I make the correct decisions to do so. I'll take that over phony "caring" any day of the week!
_____________________________
Joe Baker, who stands by his original statement, but does so with goodwill for those who disagree.

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:24 pm

What the heck type of Public Universities are you guys going to?

I'm going to a top ten Public school and getting a world-class education for right about 5 grand a year. If I keep a B average, it's free.

Maybe instead of asking for more money, you should ask for more bang for your buck. If Tech can do it, it can't be that difficult.

Doug "who got his butt in gear after the first semester and finally earned back that B average"

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Tue May 31, 2005 7:39 pm

Rose Schweikhart's post got me up and remembering.
My college advisor informed me that to be a teacher,I would need to get a doctorate in music to avoid being rolled out of a job.He also told me to be a player,all I had to do is go play-which I did.
The military awarded me 36 G.I. Bill checks for college.I used the opportunity to study music,psychology,political science,business and anything else I might use later on.I appreciate the chance,as Rose stated to find a career,maybe even one I had not planned on.
I found work as a player for most of my career but did not hesitate to work in unrelated fields,if I felt that was the best thing to be doing at the time.My wife worked for 23 years and togerther,we got the kids raised and the mortgage paid.
Happily retired and having the most musical fun ever,tubaing,
Dennis Gray
www.johnreno.com

Doug@GT · Post by **Doug@GT** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:02 pm

baritonesband wrote: next year i will have to make a decision on whether or not i want to take ap classes(4 of them in fact)...and i think they will decrease my time in practicing and improving as a player very much. studies are important especially if an incident does occur in which you are unable to play again. this decision is very difficult for me because it slowly narrows down what i want to do in the future.

When I was in high school, I took every ap class I could that I was interested in (read: everything but biology). At the same time, I devoted a lot of time to the tuba. What is amazing to me now (3-5 years later) is how little these decisions narrowed down my options for the future.

Up until my Junior year of high school, I "knew" i was going to study music at UGA. After that, and into my second year of college, I "knew" I would study Chemistry at Tech. Now, I "know" I'm studying policy and economics at Tech, and will be going to law school at UGA. To quote a famous movie, imagine what I'll "know" tomorrow.

The only thing in high school that narrows your options is your grades. The specific subject matter isn't as important that early on. Diversify, and then you can draw on those experiences in college when you actually have to decide.

Doug "for whom AP Government won out over AP Chem and Band"

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:04 pm

baritonesband wrote:tnext year i will have to make a decision on whether or not i want to take ap classes(4 of them in fact)...and i think they will decrease my time in practicing and improving as a player very much.

This is some important info that helps to clear things up.

You've basically finished "that which is expected" of a high school graduate, and are academically ready for college level work. So your choices are:
1. Take all those AP classes, moving you a semester ahead in your run for a college degree, but leaving very little time for music, fun, a job,...;
2. Take none of those AP classes, leaving you with LOTS of time to practice and work, but doing nothing to advance yourself academically or move yourself closer to graduation; or
3. Take one or two AP classes, in fields that you might consider as backup plans, do them justice, and still have time to see just what you can do with three hours a day of practice time.

Only you can decide, but if it were one of my kids asking me I'd suggest -- you guessed it -- balance. Take an AP class or two, in areas that would augment a second-choice career. If your school has an early release program -- better yet, an independent study program -- see if you can get out at 1:00, practice 'til 4:00, rest/work/play 'til 6:00, then study 'til you're done!

Whatever you decide, you obviously have been a disciplined student up to this point, and I'm sure you're going to do fine. Just keep setting those goals and working toward them!
______________________________
Joe Baker, who is thrilled to see HS students who have applied themselves.

Dylan King · Post by **Dylan King** » Tue May 31, 2005 8:43 pm

There is not a better place in America to get a good brain wash than the university system. Here are some articles on college by Dennis Prager...

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/denn ... 0125.shtml

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/denn ... 1202.shtml

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/denn ... 0513.shtml

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/denn ... 0419.shtml