Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

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rodgeman
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Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by rodgeman »

Just thought I would share my observations on the Dillon Geib mouthpieces. I come from a Trombone, euphonium background so I have been partial to bowl shaped mouthpieces. I play a 60's Mirafone 186 with a recording bell. The current mouthpieces I have are: Conn Helleberg 120, Kelly 18, Dillon G2B, Dillon 5. After doing a lot of reading on tubanet about mouthpieces I thought I would add some observations.

Conn Helleberg 120 - I like it but playing below Bb requires more work.

Kelly 18 - The bowl is too small for me. Plays well but my lips run out of room.

Dillon G5 - after reading on Tubenet about the Geib mouthpieces these intrigued me. I had played a PT-88+ but it was too big. This seems like a good compromise. I do like the mouthpiece and it plays well. I was concerned that the smaller 7.5mm throat would be an issue and it has not. The rounded rim is more comfortable that I would have thought also.

Dillon G2B - I saw this and decided to get it to try the larger throat. It has a smaller diameter than the G5 and has a brass core. It plays better for me than the G5. It is more nimble and I do not loose the lower register (such as I have).

The Geib mouthpieces seem to have gone out of favor. I am curious as to why. It seems to me they were designed for the type of tuba I have.

Are the Miraphone mouthpieces based on the Geib style or are they strickly funnel or bowl shaped.

At some point I would like to try the Schilke Geib as I played Schilke mouthpieces when I had a bass trombone and Besson euphonium. I know Lee Stofer produces one but it is out of my budget.

I look forward to any and all comments.
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by Tom »

rodgeman wrote: The Geib mouthpieces seem to have gone out of favor. I am curious as to why.
I don't feel that way at all. It seems to me that Geib mouthpieces are more popular and more available than ever:

Schilke, Laskey, Stofer, Dillon, Wedge, Kanstul all have Geib mouthpieces available, though the Dillon line might not be currently available - I'm unsure. There's probably some makers I've forgotten as well. The Laskey 30G probably introduced more "modern" players to the Geib design than any other brand and model that I can think of. It has been a hugely popular mouthpiece from what I can tell.

I'm a big fan of the Geib concept and own several variants, mostly Schilke. I would definitely recommend trying one if you have found that you like the Geib design. I prefer the rim Schilke uses on their Geib designs to most others. The Dillon rims are very different from those used on the Schilke, however, with the Dillon rim (to me...) being much wider and much more rounded - more "cushion rim" like (???), you might say?

Geibs have always worked really well for me, regardless of tuba type, but I don't think the two of us are the only ones. :tuba:
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bort
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by bort »

I like Geib mouthpieces a lot, too... but I do find that the small backbore is a problem for me. That was most noticeable with the Conn Geib (the basis for the Stofer) that I once owned. Gorgeous sound, but I found it extremely limiting with that backbore. I talked to a lot of people about it, and one comment I heard a few times was that the Conn Geib is a 100 year old mouthpiece, built for 100 year old tubas and 100 year old playing styles.

And although I'll butcher the exact history (sorry!), I think it's similar to how Arnold Jacobs had an old Helleberg, and then he and the rest of the brass in Chicago were looking for bigger sounds, so they started drilling out the backbores on their mouthpieces. Bigger mouthpiece bores, bigger horns, bigger sounds...

I would be most interested in a Geib-style mouthpiece that has the characteristic thin/sharp rim, deep pear-shaped cup, and a modern sized backbore (doesn't have to be gigantic, just not tiny). If I was okay with stainless steel mouthpieces, I'd be calling a certain member of the 30,000+ post club, to buy one of his mouthpieces.

PS -- if I had the time (and know-how), I have really wanted to do an inventory of all Geib-style mouthpieces, to see their similarities and differences. Kanstul and Stofer are copies of the Conn, so they are very similar. I've heard that the Schilke is more Helleberg-like than the Conn Geib, and that the Laskey also has some deviations from the original. Plus as Tom mentions, the rims on the Dillon. None of those are "bad" things, not at all... just not quite direct copies of the original. Everyone has their own idea for advancement and enhancement, and we tuba players sure are picky enough to buy them all and try them all. :tuba:
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by barry grrr-ero »

Geib is a name that has been hijacked by most everybody. My take is that, in general, they are a bit wider and shallower (more bowl [or pear] shaped) than the Helleberg family. I use a Stofer Geib. My understanding is that the Stofer Geib is the closest copy of Fred Geib's original Conn mouthpiece. I can't comment on the back-bore, but I do know it has a slightly smaller throat than usual. That fact has actually been an asset on my B&S Neptune, which can be a real 'air hog'. In fact, the low notes are actually stronger, fuller sounding using this m.p. in relation to some bigger pieces I was using. More importantly, the low notes speak quickly using this piece in conjunction with the bigger pipe (Neptune comes with two pipes). In short, it works for me.

I don't believe that the original line of Miraphone m.p.'s had been made with any prior knowledge of the Conn Geib piece. I could be wrong about that. But you're correct in thinking that many pieces in their line are more bowl or 'pear' shaped - more so than they are funnels (Helleberg like). The original C3 - I have no idea what the current TU number for that is - is probably somewhat close to my Stofer Geib.

If you live anywhere near where Lee Stofer is (Iowa, I think), I would recommend giving his Geib copy a try.
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bisontuba
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by bisontuba »

Hi-
Jim New has left Kanstul but set up his own shop. He was the maker of the Kanstul Geib tuba mthpce. Even if not listed on his site, he can make them. Contact him here:

http://james-r-new.com/" target="_blank

Mark
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bort
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by bort »

bisontuba wrote:Hi-
Jim New has left Kanstul but set up his own shop. He was the maker of the Kanstul Geib tuba mthpce. Even if not listed on his site, he can make them. Contact him here:

http://james-r-new.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank

Mark
I emailed him back in June, and he was just moving to Utah and getting set up... and working through a large backlog of orders. He told me he DOES have the data for them, just wasn't ready to add tuba mouthpieces to the mix yet. That was June, though... maybe I'll touch base again?
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by PaulMaybery »

I always felt that an opinion of a mouthpiece is usually a reactive observation based on what mp you were playing imediately before the one in question. Large to small, small to large, one will tend to exaggerate the feel of the other.

For me, the test can take several months where I put it through its paces in day to day work. Does it help or hinder the process of playing. And certainly, it might be a piece that is a specialty mp that is good for low and loud while another is better suited for high playing.

I personally do not like the large, wide open throated mps for general "go to"use.
I do like the Stofer/Geib for an everyday piece, or for that matter a regular H2.

I have no power issues with the Geib one eyota. It's all about how you address the mouthpiece.
If you want the Geib to really feel big,play on a 7B for a hour or two and then swap to the Geib. It will feel like a bucket.

So many of these mentioned MPs have quite a bit in common and the anecdotal stories about each one, well it seems to leave the player and their adaptive abilities out of the picture.

At one time or another, just about all of these could be touted by some fine player as the end all of MPs. Then the following year, they land on another and its the best.

AH ..........!!!!
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rodgeman
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by rodgeman »

Thank you all for your input. It helps to hear from others and their experiences.

As for myself. I am an amateur. I play in a community band. At one time, many years ago, I was a music ed major playing many hours a day in various groups and in a limited professional capacity. Not making my living with it. I have the utmost respect for those who make their living playing as well as anyone who continues to play.

Now I just play to enjoy myself, contribute to a musical group, and take a break from my day job which is technical application software support.

I enjoy TubeNet and contributing to the tuba community. Thank all of you for reading and taking the time to respond. Of the various instruments I have played tuba seems to bring me the most enjoyment (and sometimes frustration).

:)
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Re: Dillon Geib and other mouthpiece observations

Post by cjk »

bort wrote: ...
I would be most interested in a Geib-style mouthpiece that has the characteristic thin/sharp rim, deep pear-shaped cup, and a modern sized backbore (doesn't have to be gigantic, just not tiny). If I was okay with stainless steel mouthpieces, I'd be calling a certain member of the 30,000+ post club, to buy one of his mouthpieces.
....
Just sayin' ... that dude sells Lexan rims. The black Lexan is slicker than the clear.
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