choice
- Tom Mason
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choice
In the never ending quest to get that "perfect tuba", I am deciding to try something different. My choices so far are a used yamaha 321 and a used besson compensating 3 valve.
Not interested in Bb or C or Eb discussion, but a discussion about parts availability and does the compensating system work as well as described. (also dent removal and slide problems)
Tom Mason
Not interested in Bb or C or Eb discussion, but a discussion about parts availability and does the compensating system work as well as described. (also dent removal and slide problems)
Tom Mason
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Re: choice
The yamaha plays easier. the besson has better tone. Pretty big difference in both categories, despite similar dimensions and design.
The yamaha could theoretically play lower, if 124/234/134 form actual notes. Besson comp system is dead-nuts.
Yamaha has good parts availability. bessons don't tend to need entirely new parts.
The yamaha could theoretically play lower, if 124/234/134 form actual notes. Besson comp system is dead-nuts.
Yamaha has good parts availability. bessons don't tend to need entirely new parts.
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
Question #2 on this same subject: If I do the besson (have experience with 3 valve compensatiing euphonium, but not tuba), is it better to go with a mouthpiece built for the smaller shank, or go with a replacement receiver? (would consider one of Joe's mouthpieces or a Wick if replacing the receiver isn't a good idea)
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
If I get the besson of which I am looking, I figure putting a receiver on the horn wouldn't be a big issue. Looks would not be an issue.
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Re: choice
idk if shank is a limiting factor...it's a smaller diameter, but it doesn't have to be as big b/c its backbore is shorter. Leadpipe starts at a good hearty diameter close to .590" despite small receiver.
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
Now that you mention this, how does one tell if it is Sovereign, Imperial, International or New Standard? I just looked at a picture of the stamp on the bell and it doesn't specify in those terms. Good for me to learn.............the elephant wrote:Besson for me, too. However, that begs the question: Sovereign, Imperial, New Standard or International? Personally, I like playing the 17" bell Imperials better than the 19" Sovereign (or the very late 19" bell Imperials). I don't know why. I just do. They play differently from one another, and my limited experience with both led me to this. Had I more experience with these horns I would probably have a more developed opinion.
All I *do* know is that I strongly dislike *any* compensated 4-valved tuba from the Edgeware St. factory. I like all the 3-valved ones I have played, however. All of them. Not enough to own one, but enough to steer students looking for something like this setup to three-banger B&H Eb and BBb tubas. (The B&H horns tend to cost a bit less around here because they are less blingy. The Besson tubas are more "ornate".)
Tom, whatever you get, please post some pics and your evaluation of the thing. If you get an old Imperial BBb I would change the receiver. I don't like the mouthpieces you can get to fit the bigger horns in this line with the smaller shank. If you got the Eb I would tell you to keep the receiver and get one of Joe's excellent mouthpieces. (Or a Wick, but I do not care for them all that much.)
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
https://madison.craigslist.org/msg/d/be ... 94026.html" target="_blank
Here is the horn in question.
Tom
Here is the horn in question.
Tom
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Re: choice
looks like an early '70's New Standard that has had a bit of a rough life in a school. You can date it for sure if you get the serial number. If the valves are in good shape & are properly aligned and no leaks in the rest of the horn - these things can play very well. Good ones won't have the stuffiness or slow reponse that folks complain about with comps. I don't know that I'd run out and change the receiver as a Wick 1 or 2 work extremely well with this horn. I've also used a shaved shank Schilke 67 for great results as well. I think you can even get small shank from Bloke for his mouthpieces. Big lovely sound, fast valves and great intonation are to be had with good ones. Bad ones play like crap and these were popular with schools so a lot of worn out badly maintained ones are floating around.
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
Might I come by Friday and try the horn?
Tom
Tom
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Re: choice
My 1974 Besson 3 comp "New Standard" doesn't say what sort of tuba it is either. Just has the "50 Medals of Honor" stamped on it. I had the receiver replaced as well.
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David Smith
Wessex BBb Grand (5 valve)
Wessex Festivo
Wessex BBb Grand (5 valve)
Wessex Festivo
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
I will post thee pictures tomorrow afternoon. May also have a picture of me playing the horn tonight at a gig. Hopefully you will see that Joe puts out the effort to make the customer the priority in his dealings. What he did to the horn was far above what is expected for selling as is.
- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
To clarify some comments: I have lost all the hearing in my right ear due to a law enforcement and school teaching activity. In short, I lost the hearing while administering CPR to a bus driver without the aid of an automatic defibulator or breathing bag back in 2008 during an ice storm. Doctors say that my blood pressure went high enough that I damaged the blood flow to my middle ear bones.
I had a BAHA hearing implant in 2009, and for a number of years, struggled with the quality of hearing. It has gotten to the point that when I used a left bell, the sound of the horn interferes with the sound of the remaining ensemble.
Insurance goes back and forth concerning coverage of hearing implants, and I am currently loosing the battle as far as replacement or updating devices or implants. With kids in college and having to watch what I spend, priorities have to be made.
I have finally decided that the alternative is the right pointing bell. The choices are limited, as you well known. Having had experience with Besson 3 valve compensating euphoniums in college, I knew that the tubas were an option. Joe and others on Tubenet have them occasionally, and I took a shot.
Joe spent time with me and the horn. In a day where he had better and more important things to do; he replaced broken braces, traded valves with another horn as he mentioned earlier, took out dents that were accessible, and closed up some closed up some solder joint places. He took a horn that was really a source for parts and made a horn that was good for the job.
I played the horn Saturday evening at a dixieland concert. More pictures later when my wife sends them to me. Thank you , Joe for the day of letting me watch and learn. Thanks to Mrs. Joe for entertaining me and giving me a narrative of the compound while we waited for you.
I had a BAHA hearing implant in 2009, and for a number of years, struggled with the quality of hearing. It has gotten to the point that when I used a left bell, the sound of the horn interferes with the sound of the remaining ensemble.
Insurance goes back and forth concerning coverage of hearing implants, and I am currently loosing the battle as far as replacement or updating devices or implants. With kids in college and having to watch what I spend, priorities have to be made.
I have finally decided that the alternative is the right pointing bell. The choices are limited, as you well known. Having had experience with Besson 3 valve compensating euphoniums in college, I knew that the tubas were an option. Joe and others on Tubenet have them occasionally, and I took a shot.
Joe spent time with me and the horn. In a day where he had better and more important things to do; he replaced broken braces, traded valves with another horn as he mentioned earlier, took out dents that were accessible, and closed up some closed up some solder joint places. He took a horn that was really a source for parts and made a horn that was good for the job.
I played the horn Saturday evening at a dixieland concert. More pictures later when my wife sends them to me. Thank you , Joe for the day of letting me watch and learn. Thanks to Mrs. Joe for entertaining me and giving me a narrative of the compound while we waited for you.
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- Tom Mason
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Re: choice
A final picture of the tuba. Don't know how to label the picture or the work as being done by a tuba specialist or a repair guru who chose to work on tubas that day.........
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