smuggeling 'weapons' into school

[Joe Baker]

Call it whining if you like, but a lot of us are getting sick of being significantly inconvenienced for the mere illusion of security. If this kind of enforcement accomplished anything, that'd be one thing; but it's just like the finger-nail clipper confiscations. To borrow a joke (sorta) from Jeff Foxworthy, what's the terrorist going to do: "You turn this plane around or I'll make your fingernails look like crap!" No security comes from silly stuff like this; it just makes people feel good that "somebody's doing something.'

I went to an inner-city Jr. High back in the early days of bussing ('74-'76). We had no shootings -- the thought then was that real men could fight, and didn't need a gun -- but LOTS of fights. I don't believe there was a week in the two years I was there that I wasn't attacked, almost always with a makeshift weapon of some kind. I saw first-hand the ease with which kids can find or conceal a weapon -- metal "rakes" (like a big comb, for you youngsters who've never seen one) with the points sharpened, stabbing with ball-point pens (a favorite trick was to put a "wedge" point on the non-writing end of those old hard-plastic Bic pens, then put the cap on so it wasn't visible), swinging heavy (sometimes sharpened) belt buckles, plastic bottles of battery acid, or just hitting each other with chairs and books -- things that make a 6-inch length of 2x4 look like a comfy pillow, all of which are either already in the school or could be carried past metal detectors today.

The answer isn't keeping a piece of wood out of the school; it's keeping kids who want to cause trouble out of school. We don't do that, though. We keep letting the trouble-makers back in, giving them chance after chance after chance, as they terrorize the other students and make learning virtually impossible. Would we tolerate someone returning to our workplace after they've attacked a co-worker? Nonsense! So why do we let these thugs back into the schools? We must not REALLY care as much about our children's safety as we do our own.

And just like at the airport, the good kid who has never caused anyone a minute of trouble is subject to the same suspicion and the same treatment as the punk who is always causing trouble. Wooden blocks don't hurt students, hoodlums hurt students -- repeatedly, in most cases.
____________________________
Joe Baker, who is angry about what ISN'T being done, not whining about what IS.

[rascaljim]

Craig -

Talk about intelligent people making laws and unintelligent people enforcing them

And as far as zero tollerance goes, appearantly I could get arrested (according to my students) for about half the things that I keep in my tuba case for on the go repairs. Meaning things like screwdrivers. I haven't had any issues because when I go in the security guard makes me walk with my tuba through the metal detector and when it goes off they don't do anything to me. Good for me, but bad for the school if i were a psycho. Besides, with all the unpatrolled doors at that school, it would be so easy for a couple kids to work together at getting weapons in.

Joe - amen

the rest of you thank's for your suggestions

I will suggest that the school try to get a real stand because it could be used in the future by other students. When I was in grade school the school bought one for me beecause I had trouble holding the tuba. School programs have to spend their alloted budjet or they get it cut the next year. I'll see what I can do.

I still think the no tolerance thing is kinda stupid
Jim L

[Alex C]

Use hockey pucks.! Two taped together work great.

Oh.... wait. My bad. You can use a hockey puck as a weapon. Just look at pro hockey. Oh... wait. My bad. There ain't no pro hockey.

[Tubaryan12]

I can see both sides of this (the zero tolerence/kick the bad seeds out groups), but I don't remember seeing the a few things that usually have pretty good results: Why not have the parents take the thing into the school? Or give the school a call and talk to someone in charge about leaving it there? Or if the school has one, have the woodshop make a block? Then put one of those "Property of ___________ School District" stickers or stamps on it and they have to let it back in.

[ThomasDodd]

Call it whining if you like, but a lot of us are getting sick of being significantly inconvenienced for the mere illusion of security.
...
The answer isn't keeping a piece of wood out of the school; it's keeping kids who want to cause trouble out of school. We don't do that, though.

I agree completely with both statements.

<devil's advocate>
On the latter though, what do you do with the thugs? Kicking them out means they dodn't get educated. You abandoning them to a life a poverty and criminality.
</devil's advocate>

Alternative schools? In school suspensions? Some way to attempt to educate them while removing them from the rest of the students.

Zero tolerance policies just make zero-sense. Just as there is a difference in an asprin and speed, there is a difference in a hug and kiss on the cheek and a soft dorn groping sex act in the hall. Treating them the same is a bigger problem than they are attempting to stop. No analitical skils illustrated. One size fits all solutions touted. Punishing acceptable behavour. Is this really the kind of example we want set for children?

[kegmcnabb]

Well Joe, I appreciate your weighing in on this. It was a question I posed and your thoughtful answer is appreciated.
I do wonder about a couple of things, however.

I went to an inner-city Jr. High back in the early days of bussing ('74-'76)...

...And just like at the airport, the good kid who has never caused anyone a minute of trouble is subject to the same suspicion and the same treatment as the punk.

Given the years you were in school you are probably old enough to remember the rash of airline hijackings that led to the intitial rise of security in airports. Sure, it inconvenienced people then too, and some people complained, but you know what...IT WORKED...for nearly 30 years anyway.

Secondly, who is the good kid getting incovenienced? The very definition of RANDOM checks mandate that they include the possiblility that anyone COULD be a problem. If you remember, before 9/11, the faces of the biggest terrorist killers on US soil probably looked a lot like you or me...a tall skinny white man and a short, balding middle age white guy. Neither looking particularly terrorist-like...whatever the flip that is. Exactly how do we go about indentifying the "punk" who deserves this inconvenience? I guess if we knew HOW to do that, we would have no safety issues in the skies or on school playgrounds.

Is some of this "safety" an illusion? Probably, but again it represents an honest attempt to work out these issues. This situation is new to all of us and will require a learning curve to get it right. I think most of us can live with that if we try.

Apolgies to those who must maintain their precious manicures.

[Joe Baker]

On the latter though, what do you do with the thugs? Kicking them out means they dodn't get educated. You abandoning them to a life a poverty and criminality.

You know, Thomas, I don't really care. My main concern is for the good kids whose lives are made a living hell by these cretins. I don't have any problem providing an alternative school -- even (perhaps) a path to EVENTUALLY (no sooner than a semester later) return many of them to a regular school -- if they want to go there. But I don't see any point in forcing a kid to go to school after about age 14. If they don't want to be there, they'll learn nothing. I'd rather let them put their "school years" into an account, and be able to draw them out later in the form of job training or GED school, if they ever come to the realization that they need it. But all that is secondary to getting them AWAY from students who are willing to sit down, shut up and LEARN.
________________________________
Joe Baker, who had to fight his way through Jr. High, and has had to watch his children go through a lot of the same stuff a generation later -- but with less support from the school administration.

[windshieldbug]

Good for me, but bad for the school if i were a psycho

Are you implying that you play the tuba and you're not a psycho? What is this world coming to?

[Joe Baker]

Well Joe, I appreciate your weighing in on this. It was a question I posed and your thoughtful answer is appreciated.
I do wonder about a couple of things, however.

I went to an inner-city Jr. High back in the early days of bussing ('74-'76)...

...And just like at the airport, the good kid who has never caused anyone a minute of trouble is subject to the same suspicion and the same treatment as the punk.

Given the years you were in school you are probably old enough to remember the rash of airline hijackings that led to the intitial rise of security in airports. Sure, it inconvenienced people then too, and some people complained, but you know what...IT WORKED...for nearly 30 years anyway.

Secondly, who is the good kid getting incovenienced? The very definition of RANDOM checks mandate that they include the possiblility that anyone COULD be a problem. If you remember, before 9/11, the faces of the biggest terrorist killers on US soil probably looked a lot like you or me...a tall skinny white man and a short, balding middle age white guy. Neither looking particularly terrorist-like...whatever the flip that is. Exactly how do we go about indentifying the "punk" who deserves this inconvenience? I guess if we knew HOW to do that, we would have no safety issues in the skies or on school playgrounds.

Is some of this "safety" an illusion? Probably, but again it represents an honest attempt to work out these issues. This situation is new to all of us and will require a learning curve to get it right. I think most of us can live with that if we try.

Apolgies to those who must maintain their precious manicures.

Kevin, forgive me if any of this sounds like I'm mad at you. I'm not, but this whole issue just hits my hot-button. I really do apologize if I've given -- or am about to give -- any sign that I'm angry with you in any way.

I'm not opposed to real security measures. I definitely want airlines to be checking for weapons and explosives. I like the idea of an armed presence in the airports, too. I got pulled off a plane in Frankfort at gunpoint once, because my voltage converter aroused suspicions when it was X-rayed, and as scary and embarrassing as that was (imagine the looks from the other passengers on the four-hour flight when I came back on the plane), I'm all for REAL strict security. It's the phony stuff -- things that I don't think ARE an honest attempt to work out issues, merely to avoid admitting that this is a dangerous world that can't be made completely safe -- that irks me. I, an American citizen with no arrest record or foreign affiliation, get grilled like a sirloin steak coming into the country -- and that's okay. But at the same time, we have border patrols in the southwest being told to look the other way when who-knows-WHO is strolling across the border! Where's the security in THAT??

I agree with your point that in the public at large you do have to go with a lot of the random stuff (although common sense dictates that -- while most young Arab men are no threat -- a young man from Syria SHOULD be checked a bit more closely than an 80-year-old woman from Scottsdale).

But in the school, the staff knows within a week who is trouble. Ask any teacher if I'm not right. In the past (for example in my Jr. High years) the teachers knew who was starting the fights and who was being attacked, and responded accordingly. As long as all I did was defend myself, I never got into trouble. Today, if a kid defends himself he's treated EXACTLY the same as the kid that started it -- as though the school staff doesn't really know which kid is the bully and which the innocent victim. I had to pull my kid out to a private school for two years because he kept getting jumped by other kids, and he'd wind up with the same punishment as the kids that were jumping him. The Principal even told me, "Mr. Baker, I understand that it's upsetting that Johnny keeps hitting, kicking and shoving your son, but we just can't have fighting". Uh-huh. Apparently they can have Johnny hitting and shoving my kid, though. Because all they ever did was tell Johnny to stop, which instruction he heeded for about 10 seconds before he was back on my kid.

With all the people out there claiming to be willing to do anything "for the children", it's time somebody did SOMETHING to solve this problem -- and it has to start with separating the bad apples from the rest of the barrell.
_________________________
Joe Baker, who is fed up with phony-baloney.

[davet]

Just finished my 33rd year in the public schools today so I can't let this one go by.

You waited WEEKS for a kid to bring in a block of wood? Are you 100% certain that he actually did attempt to bring the thing in? Smart kids are among the best manipulators and excuse makers in the universe! When I hear a story like this from a kid I always follow it up. I would have made contact with the person who supposedly forbade the item just to make sure that IS what actually happened.

As you can see from the responses to the original topic, many are ready to jump on the school bashing bandwagon (which many times is deserving of the bashing it gets!) without knowing the full story. If it sounds bad and is about public schools it MUST be true, right?

Many students don't have wood at home. It's hard to imagine, but sometimes when kids need an ordinary item that one would think would be laying around every home I will hear that a trip to the local home improvement store was necessary to buy said item.

Suggestion: Bring in a d*** block of wood and give it to the kid. YOU can get it through the doorway! I bring in stuff from home all the time (today it was my foghorn and a water balloon launcher) if it will help get the job done for the kids. It helps that I never throw anything away!

The one thing that sounds a bit fishy in this story.... Any "authority" I know who finds a kid with a "weapon" would check out the kid's story and see if the "device" was legit.- especially if it was just a chunk of wood.

However, I know that there are some authority figures out there who LOVE to show students who the "boss" is and might take the thing just because they can. These folks tend to be the lower paid staff who get stuck with supervisory responsibilities that nobody else wants or can be freed up to do.

OK tubists, have at me and the public schools for which I stand! My 10 week summer layoff just started! (Don't you be callin' it a vacation unless you're goin' to pay me for it!)

end of rant.................Dave

[Rick Denney]

tape some wires, a battery and a small light bulb to the block of wood. Write up a mock "report" on your "homemade flashlight". Once in the bandroom, put the batteries in your walk-man, toss the light bulb and the wires, and you've got your block of wood.

Are you nutz? Here's the scene that popped into my mind after reading the above: The Bomb Squad clearing the school and the surrounding 20 acres, putting the "bomb" out in the football field, and blowing it up with their robot-control bomb destroyer they just bought with Homeland Security funds.

All you'd need to complete the picture is a timer.

No, we've already seen evidence that the searchers are too dumb to see the difference between a block of wood pretending to be a flashlight and a block of plastique with a detonator attached.

Rick "who suspects the kid didn't do a very good job of articulating the situation, and that it requires band director intervention" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

tape some wires, a battery and a small light bulb to the block of wood. Write up a mock "report" on your "homemade flashlight". Once in the bandroom, put the batteries in your walk-man, toss the light bulb and the wires, and you've got your block of wood.

Are you nutz? Here's the scene that popped into my mind after reading the above: The Bomb Squad clearing the school and the surrounding 20 acres, putting the "bomb" out in the football field, and blowing it up with their robot-control bomb destroyer they just bought with Homeland Security funds.

All you'd need to complete the picture is a timer.

No, we've already seen evidence that the searchers are too dumb to see the difference between a block of wood pretending to be a flashlight and a block of plastique with a detonator attached.

Rick "who suspects the kid didn't do a very good job of articulating the situation, and that it requires band director intervention" Denney

Yes, but don't you feel so much safer? This whole situation is like hiring a roach exterminator who uses a .50 caliber machine gun to go after roaches.

[kegmcnabb]

[Kevin, forgive me if any of this sounds like I'm mad at you. I'm not, but this whole issue just hits my hot-button. I really do apologize if I've given -- or am about to give -- any sign that I'm angry with you in any way.

-- a young man from Syria SHOULD be checked a bit more closely than an 80-year-old woman from Scottsdale).

Ummm, if you're calling me Kevin, then I'm mad at you!

And as far as a lady from Scottsdale...have you hung around with one lately?...they scare the sh*t outta me.

[Joe Baker]

Kevin, Craig... whatever.

Sorry
_______________________
Joe Baker, who is bad with names. Really, REALLY bad.

[Joe Baker]

Are you nutz?

I have it on good authority that the answer is "yes".
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who also notes that Rick has an extraordinary ability to think like a paranoid...

[Dylan King]

All this talk about security reminds me of an interesting thing that happened to me involving the secret service back in 1994. President Clinton came to town for UCLA's 75th anniversary celebration and the Bruin Brass, UCLA's top brass quintet at the time, was schedualed to play for him at Pauley Pavilion.

We arrived early to be checked out by secret service because we were to be placed right next to the President on the stage. They had me open my tuba case and they checked in every slide with a flashlight, in addition to the standard metal detector and pat-down. The funny thing was they didn't check the side pocket on my gigbag, which I realized later contained two knives and a screwdriver, including a buck knife and a Swiss army. What a fool I was for forgetting to remove those items, but fortunately I got away with it. But thinking about it afterwards I realized what fools the Secret Service were. When I removed the horn from the gigbag, they just brought the gigbag past the checkpoint and set it down so I could put the horn back in it after they searched the inside of the horn with their fine tooth comb. They never gave the gig bag a second look.

Perhaps the side pocket on a gigbag would also be a good place to hide those dangerous wood blocks.

-MSM

[ThomasDodd]

' just another very good reason to homeschool...

And then where is the kid going play tuba? Solo's in the park?

I'm currently trying to work this out, as my son attends a small private school with a very basic music program, no band or instrumental classes.

Some instruments are well suited for solo work. But low brass isn't one of them, especially in the early stages.

Learnhg to play with a group is important too, but I've yet to find an outlet for young players around here. Even if there was a youth-orchestra, that's not really a place for beginners is it.

[Chuck(G)]

' just another very good reason to homeschool...

And then where is the kid going play tuba? Solo's in the park?

I'm currently trying to work this out, as my son attends a small private school with a very basic music program, no band or instrumental classes.

Some instruments are well suited for solo work. But low brass isn't one of them, especially in the early stages.

Learnhg to play with a group is important too, but I've yet to find an outlet for young players around here. Even if there was a youth-orchestra, that's not really a place for beginners is it.

Many homeschoolers enroll their children in one or two public school classes such as band. Best to check with your local school district to see if it's allowed.

[ThomasDodd]

' just another very good reason to homeschool...

And then where is the kid going play tuba? Solo's in the park?

Many homeschoolers enroll their children in one or two public school classes such as band. Best to check with your local school district to see if it's allowed.

So far the biggest issue is that both schools have the same day schedule, so he'd be in class while band is going on. Home schoolers don't have that proble, since they set their schedule.

The other issue is friction at the schools. So far the local schools have been giving me a run-around. And I haven't had much luck catching up with the band director.

[Rick Denney]

Joe Baker, who also notes that Rick has an extraordinary ability to think like a paranoid...

It comes from living too close to the source of paranoia and other neuroses.

Rick "who was interviewed by the CIA today about a neighbor who works there and was getting a routine security review" Denney