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advice to debate

Postby bloke » Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:22 pm

Having grown weary of the 188 topic, how about discussing/debating this statement as something that is OFTEN (or even, perhaps, MOST often) good advice...or is NOT...?? :

bloke-istotle wrote:If you cannot currently afford to buy the tuba that you really want, keep the one that you have until you can afford the one you really want. Otherwise, you'll be sideways-trading, possibly will be no more satisfied than before, and also very possibly will have surrendered some of the funds that would have taken you towards your actually-desired ownership goals.
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Re: advice to debate

Postby cktuba » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:14 pm

Yep... and I have fallen into that trap way too many times. Not knowing exactly what you want can produce the same result (it only took me 32 years to figure it out).
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Re: advice to debate

Postby Donn » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:21 pm

Right, a couple of my tubas have been gambles, that I'd eventually go somewhere worth going with that tuba. I glad I don't know what I want, more interesting that way.
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Re: advice to debate

Postby bort » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:05 pm

For the sake of discussion, here are two possible rebuttals, both related to time:
1) "the tuba you really want" likely changes over time (development as a player changes opinions, new models come out, etc.)
2) at some point, waiting and saving isn't appealing... Sure, you can always wait it out. But if it takes 20% longer and you can make a few moves to get closet to where you want to be, then why not make the wait a little more exciting? As an older tuba player I knew in Baltimore once told me, upon buying a new Fafner -- "you only go around once!"
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Re: advice to debate

Postby SteveP » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:09 pm

Bloke's assertion assumes that a one "knows" what tuba he or she really wants and simply has to wait until he/she can buy it. That isn't necessarily the case. For example, I'm an older man (geezer) and would like to have an instrument with certain "physical" characteristics to make it easier for me to continue playing. These would include size and weight as well as others. And, of course, it has to play well. As many instruments might meet my needs it may be necessary to go through several makes and models to get where I want to be. I wish I could know exactly what I want but that isn't possible. It's a trial and error process.
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Re: advice to debate

Postby bloke » Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:45 pm

To me (personally) not-knowing = not-buying.
I suspect that quite a few people know what they really want (no...not everyone).
I'm also surprised that - when someone is in the market for a tuba...and a whole bunch of tubas are going to be somewhere within a long day's commute - they pass on opportunities to take $300 road trips that could self-educate.
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Re: advice to debate

Postby SteveP » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:20 pm

Your points are well taken. However, there is no long day's commute from where I am except maybe to Phoenix or Las Vegas. And, trust me, I've always got my feelers out for any tubas being advertised in those areas but they don't come up often. And, as far as I know, there are no real dealers in either city. Regardless, yes, if I was willing to take the time and spend the money to get on a plane and travel I could probably play a bunch of instruments. But I'm somewhat lazy and eBay's a lot easier. You are correct about self-educating. Ideally that's the way to go.
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Re: advice to debate

Postby bloke » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:48 pm

I'm occasionally encountering some really talented people who play (really :| ) quite well, but encounter continual financial challenges. (Mostly, they are really good parents and sacrifice their own interests and pursuits for their childrens', which most people view as *admirable.) Their instruments are good, and they sound good on them, because of their tremendous talent and hard work. They know (from their own experiences, and from intermittent instrument trials) which instruments would really benefit their playing, but seem to involve themselves in trading around in the price range of the instrument they currently own (typically, loosing $1K - $2K in funds in each those trades).
_____________________________________________________
* a sidebar, and an extremely controversial footnote, as American culture has changed a great deal in the last 40 - 50 years:
In my family and many of my friends' families growing up - just to offer a bit of contrast - if I had asked my Dad to buy me a bike/guitar/bass guitar/amplifier/tuba/car, the response would have been something similar to this:
What's the matter, son? Have you become a dope-fiend or something...?? What's all this 'give me' business...? You know how to make money. I've seen you do it before. If you want a car [etc.], go make some more... [reopens his newpaper, and sips on his Busch Bavarian Beer]

My father could have easily afforded to buy those things for me, but (wisely, imo) chose to not. When 17 - 19 years old, I also had a so-called "full ride" at the state university ( ' never occurred to me to apply at a "fancy" school), but there were quite a few related expenses - which I covered myself out of my earnings - most all of which were either steady (theme park, etc.) or free-lance gigs.

Though (yes), I bought more stuff for my own children (again: a different era) I still enforced "boundaries". My daughter's local civic "youth symphony orchestra" planned a trip to Italy one summer. (wtf...?? :shock: ) When funds were solicited from me for this endeavor, my response was as follows:
Mrs. bloke has not yet visited Europe, so I would choose for Mrs. bloke to go visit there at the family's expense before her daughter goes there at the family's expense. Further, if my daughter continues to improve and mature as a musician, I'm certain she'll visit there without us having to pay for her to go there.
(Since that time, our daughter has been to Europe at least two or three times - always: at the expense of others.)
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Re: advice to debate

Postby pjv » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:48 pm

Bort made a good point by saying that the type of tuba a player may want can change over time. People develop, change their opinions (tastes) and newer models come out (with real improvements, not just fades). As well their type of work can also drastically change, as is in my case.

Now some people can pick up a horn, blow it the way the horn wants to be blown to get the optimal effect also hear immediately if it's what they want/need. They can hear in their head if it will work out in the field. Unfortunately I'm not one of those players.

I've been in places that had an enormous pick in tubas (Dillons, The Horn Guys, Thomann, etc) and made good choices but in hind sight not the best choice. This is in no way a reflection on the very admirable services of these establishments. (On the contrary, we should all be thankful that there are music shops out there crazy enough to stock a variety of high end tubas!)

I need to try a tuba out extensively, at home and gigging, in order to figure out if it works for me. Which qualities in the tuba make my life easier and which qualities make me work harder. Where's the trade-off. So I've invested in 2nd hand tubas over the years in order figure this out. The buy, try, sell, repeat method.

A lot of horns just don't come across my path and I have to really invest time and effort into looking for tubas. I believe it's cheeper to try out what I think I need in 2nd hand tubas, circling around my goal before I really invest.

Uh, I could be mistaken of coarse. I'm not a great businessman.
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Re: advice to debate

Postby Leland » Sun Oct 08, 2017 12:02 am

I've only owned two tubas (not counting the King contrabass bugle I sent back "home" last year). I bought the second one only after I realized which problems were mine and which problems were due to the old tuba.

I simply picked the one that I enjoyed playing the most.

Now, if I had to get more tubas to satisfy someone else's idea of what kind of sound I should make, then I suppose my shopping would get more complicated.
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