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I'm about to have a tuba shipped via FedEx... Give me a percent chance you think the tuba will arrive unscathed.

Brief blindfolded excursions on quiet streets, you might get away with it for a long time. Of course eventually there would be a reckoning, and then that would be the memorable outcome, but until then, you could offer testimonial after testimonial to the apparent safety of this practice. Thus it's safer to use a parcel service that is not as widely used - these services have fewer incidents.

bloke wrote:

Donn wrote:Brief blindfolded excursions on quiet streets, you might get away with it for a long time. Of course eventually there would be a reckoning, and then that would be the memorable outcome, but until then, you could offer testimonial after testimonial to the apparent safety of this practice. Thus it's safer to use a parcel service that is not as widely used - these services have fewer incidents.

Once again, when items are...
- never more than two feet off the ground
- always handled by people, and
- never on conveyor belts
- (to the annoyance of recipients) not pushed-pushed-pushed to get them to their destinations in three days

...stuff tends to get torn-up far less often.

‘The “Dog” rules’........

bloke wrote:

Donn wrote:Brief blindfolded excursions on quiet streets, you might get away with it for a long time. Of course eventually there would be a reckoning, and then that would be the memorable outcome, but until then, you could offer testimonial after testimonial to the apparent safety of this practice. Thus it's safer to use a parcel service that is not as widely used - these services have fewer incidents.

Once again, when items are...
- never more than two feet off the ground
- always handled by people, and
- never on conveyor belts
- (to the annoyance of recipients) not pushed-pushed-pushed to get them to their destinations in three days

...stuff tends to get torn-up far less often.

Even works for kitchen cabinets.

I had an immaculate Kanstul contrabone shipped via FedEx, I believe, years ago that arrived with a severely jacked up bell. I seem to remember the TNFJ reacting poorly to my thoughts about the design of the fabled Cronkhite case it came with (slide resting on the bell? no problem!)...

kmorgancraw wrote:I'm about to have a tuba shipped via FedEx.

It really depends a lot on the sender. If it's packed well ... I don't have access to any numbers, but my guess is that for tubas that truly are packed well, the odds are decent, maybe 8:1. Of course that's really atrocious performance, but the parcel carriers aren't really cut for this kind of stuff. "Well packed" encompasses a range of possibilities, really, so maybe it should be a range of odds like 3:1 to 20:1 depending on how good is good.

For a recognizably bad packing job, more like 1:3. For my tuba, it probably would have been better to just tape the label to the tuba and forego the pretense of packing it.

the elephant wrote:

kmorgancraw wrote:I'm about to have a tuba shipped via FedEx... Give me a percent chance you think the tuba will arrive unscathed.

That tuba is dead meat.

We'll see on Friday... Hopefully I don't have any sad photos to post.

the elephant wrote:

kmorgancraw wrote:I'm about to have a tuba shipped via FedEx... Give me a percent chance you think the tuba will arrive unscathed.

That tuba is dead meat.

The box will be beat to death. That is providing they can get it to the right address. Go Greyhound. Yes, they're not perfect but I haven't received damaged horns with them or had damage on shipped horns.

edsel585960 wrote:

the elephant wrote:

kmorgancraw wrote:I'm about to have a tuba shipped via FedEx... Give me a percent chance you think the tuba will arrive unscathed.

That tuba is dead meat.

The box will be beat to death. That is providing they can get it to the right address. Go Greyhound. Yes, they're not perfect but I haven't received damaged horns with them or had damage on shipped horns.

I would have used Greyhound, as I have before, but the guy shipping it to me insisted on FedEx because it is "insured" unlike with Greyhound... And it cost 4x as much.

I have shipped 3 times. Once with UPS, once with Greyhound and once with Amtrak. Bet you can't guess which one arrived damaged.

And to be fair I don't blame the parcel companies. After all they are a 'parcel company' which in my mind points towards small and medium size boxes. Not so much a tuba or even euphonium size. They just aren't really setup to handle large fragile items. I work at a large Walmart distribution center with conveyors and I drive a forklift. When you are on a schedule and pulling 30 or more pallets an hour some up to 28 feet in the air, you're going to drop, tip and sometimes stab boxes. It happens everyday. When you take that and apply it to a heavy, awkward item like a tuba, I'm not at all surprised. Not to mention all of the freight that likes to come off of the conveyor and fall at a quick speed. Drop it 28 feet and then slide it off a conveyor a few times and also toss it into the back of some trucks and by the time you get it, your brand new dream horn looks like something out of bloke's attic.

My advice, skip the heights, high speed and mishandling and just have someone lay it in a comfy bus or train seat for a few more days.

FWIW, the horn I got a few weeks ago was sent via Amtrak with no packing except the hard case and some wrap around it. Looked as good or better than the pictures.

A guy I know shipped a tuba with UPS, in the hard case only, zero packaging. By some miracle it was perfectly fine! It's really a roll of the dice.

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No way to prove it, it's only conjecture, etc, but I'd guess that 9/10 times that a tuba (or anything else for that matter) is damaged in shipping, it's due to inadequate packaging. Too much single walled cardboard, not enough immobilization of the parcel, peanuts not boxed off within the package, cheap tape (I only use 3M's Extreme shipping tape), etc.

I assume that accidents do happen more frequently with bulk shipping companies like Fed Ex and UPS. I feel more comfortable with companies like Old Dominion.

As a musician, I'm a pretty good bricklayer, but as a shipper, I feel like I'm on pretty solid ground.

I shipped a Miraphone in a hard case well packed by my local box store/shipping company through Fed Ex across the U.S. Arrived in 3 days, no damage and had a tracking number which I was able to use to see it's whereabouts. If you're shipping a tuba, make sure it's in a hard case.

I also shipped a gig bag from west to east on Greyhound months ago, took 20 days, no tracking box was sliced up. 20 days and no one knew where it was.

groth wrote:If you're shipping a tuba, make sure it's in a hard case.

That's better than nothing - where a lot of tubas seem to get shipped in packaging that isn't better than nothing - but I believe I've read conflicting advice here from the packing experts on this point. If I remember right, the objection is roughly like this: while the case protects the tuba pretty well from something falling on it, it doesn't protect it very well at all if the case falls on something. When that happens, when the case hits the deck, the tuba inside smacks into the case just as hard as if, for example, you opened up the case and dropped the tuba into it, from the same distance. In physical terms, the tuba's inertia is suddenly transferred to the case at the points of contact, which is probably going to mean that the tuba will be deformed in the process instead.

That said, it takes an elaborate packing job to really solve that problem. With a little extra attention to packing the tuba in its case - some bubble wrap here and there, a partly inflated ball in the bell - and the case floating in the shipping box on some shock absorbing air pillows. I bet tubas shipped in case have a better track record than tubas shipped out of case, even if it isn't the ideal packaging.

Donn wrote:

groth wrote:If you're shipping a tuba, make sure it's in a hard case.

That's better than nothing - where a lot of tubas seem to get shipped in packaging that isn't better than nothing - but I believe I've read conflicting advice here from the packing experts on this point. If I remember right, the objection is roughly like this: while the case protects the tuba pretty well from something falling on it, it doesn't protect it very well at all if the case falls on something. When that happens, when the case hits the deck, the tuba inside smacks into the case just as hard as if, for example, you opened up the case and dropped the tuba into it, from the same distance. In physical terms, the tuba's inertia is suddenly transferred to the case at the points of contact, which is probably going to mean that the tuba will be deformed in the process instead.

That said, it takes an elaborate packing job to really solve that problem. With a little extra attention to packing the tuba in its case - some bubble wrap here and there, a partly inflated ball in the bell - and the case floating in the shipping box on some shock absorbing air pillows. I bet tubas shipped in case have a better track record than tubas shipped out of case, even if it isn't the ideal packaging.

Yep...

I'm one of those that has regularly said that a hard case alone is not the shipping solution. The reason tubas in cases often get damaged either when shipped or when flown with is exactly for the reason you describe: basically, the tuba moves inside the case until it hits the rigid case wall and gets crinkled up. I think a well packed box is far superior to using a hard case as a shipping container, just as bloke consistently suggests.

The European manufacturers do NOT ship their tubas to the United States in hard cases, if that tells you anything. At least one major tuba retailer does not either.

There will always be someone that has lucked out using every conceivable shipping method. For those that have shipped FedEx/UPS/similar in a hard case without problems - I'd say you were extraordinarily lucky and nothing more.

Donn wrote:

groth wrote:If you're shipping a tuba, make sure it's in a hard case.

That's better than nothing - where a lot of tubas seem to get shipped in packaging that isn't better than nothing - but I believe I've read conflicting advice here from the packing experts on this point. If I remember right, the objection is roughly like this: while the case protects the tuba pretty well from something falling on it, it doesn't protect it very well at all if the case falls on something. When that happens, when the case hits the deck, the tuba inside smacks into the case just as hard as if, for example, you opened up the case and dropped the tuba into it, from the same distance. In physical terms, the tuba's inertia is suddenly transferred to the case at the points of contact, which is probably going to mean that the tuba will be deformed in the process instead.

That said, it takes an elaborate packing job to really solve that problem. With a little extra attention to packing the tuba in its case - some bubble wrap here and there, a partly inflated ball in the bell - and the case floating in the shipping box on some shock absorbing air pillows. I bet tubas shipped in case have a better track record than tubas shipped out of case, even if it isn't the ideal packaging.

That's why I always wrap the horn inside it's case with a decent layer of bubble wrap and shipping tape like an air tight mummy of sorts as well to prevent such falls or jarring hits. Never been unsuccessful with it.

Tom wrote:

Donn wrote:

groth wrote:If you're shipping a tuba, make sure it's in a hard case.

That's better than nothing - where a lot of tubas seem to get shipped in packaging that isn't better than nothing - but I believe I've read conflicting advice here from the packing experts on this point. If I remember right, the objection is roughly like this: while the case protects the tuba pretty well from something falling on it, it doesn't protect it very well at all if the case falls on something. When that happens, when the case hits the deck, the tuba inside smacks into the case just as hard as if, for example, you opened up the case and dropped the tuba into it, from the same distance. In physical terms, the tuba's inertia is suddenly transferred to the case at the points of contact, which is probably going to mean that the tuba will be deformed in the process instead.

That said, it takes an elaborate packing job to really solve that problem. With a little extra attention to packing the tuba in its case - some bubble wrap here and there, a partly inflated ball in the bell - and the case floating in the shipping box on some shock absorbing air pillows. I bet tubas shipped in case have a better track record than tubas shipped out of case, even if it isn't the ideal packaging.

Yep...

I'm one of those that has regularly said that a hard case alone is not the shipping solution. The reason tubas in cases often get damaged either when shipped or when flown with is exactly for the reason you describe: basically, the tuba moves inside the case until it hits the rigid case wall and gets crinkled up. I think a well packed box is far superior to using a hard case as a shipping container, just as bloke consistently suggests.

The European manufacturers do NOT ship their tubas to the United States in hard cases, if that tells you anything. At least one major tuba retailer does not either.

There will always be someone that has lucked out using every conceivable shipping method. For those that have shipped FedEx/UPS/similar in a hard case without problems - I'd say you were extraordinarily lucky and nothing more.

Thanks for all the info, nice exchange of different options one has to ship an instrument. I guess by your closing statement, I am 5 out of 5 lucky then!

bloke wrote:being thrown considerably distances

Sometimes I feel like this is something that can happen while practicing, not just in shipping.

I recently shipped via Greyhound a Conn 20 J body and bell in their cases bubble and shrink-wrapped to death, clearly labeled in many places with the address and to handle carefully.

That was about a month ago. The Bell arrived , the body is now lost. Greyhound says it has a tracking system but it is usually not scanned anywhere between the sending point and the final destination. So no matter how many times you visit their website or call their employees at the 800 number, they really have no clue where it is.
This is probably about the 15th or 20th time I've used GPX, but it will probably be the last. The savings I've enjoyed over the years have all been lost on this one transaction as I will eat most of the loss.
I will do a full write-up once the final results are known. In the meantime if anyone has a contact at GPX who has a pulse, let me know please.

Eric "beyond pissed" L.

P.S. I have received tubas from all the major carriers, never any damage. I guess my number was up.

Dillon's uses FedEx Ground, I'll probably give them a shot on my next venture as a long distance seller