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TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby the elephant » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:46 pm

This ought to be entertaining...

Based on personal experience, what rotary tuba most closely plays (in sound color and weight) like the removable bell King 1140/1141/2340/2341 horns with the UPRIGHT, NINETEEN INCH BELL? Not interested in the larger bells or the recording bell. Not at all. Thanks. Also not interested in how they comparatively "feel" or the physical technique or whatever - just what rotary valved tubas sound the most like the King 19" upright bell on one of these older tubas? I also don't give a crap what your friend says or what your mama's personal beliefs might be regarding tubas in general.

I want *your* experience and opinion. If you have no personal experience with the upright 19" bell on the King tubas then SHADDUP! :tuba:
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby the elephant » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:56 pm

A friend and I are continuing a 30 year old argument on this, so I want to see who thinks what on this and why?

My personal experience with this is that the 19" bell specifically makes the old Kings sound like a BBb 188 of sorts, or maybe like a 187 (though the 187 seems to have more "depth" to me. The King's 19" bell sound is larger (fatter) than a 186 with a lot of clarity and a better sounding low range — when *I* play one of these horns. I like them a lot and held out high hopes of one day owning a nice (old style) 2341 pitched in C with a 5th valve added. (This was back in the 1980s.) I suspect the vaunted 19" bell diameter with the tighter throat has a lot to do with this: The rim is a bit larger and helps with the low range sound focus, but the throat is tighter, giving more clarity overall. (Again, this is all opinion. I hate that I have to state that over and over, but you know how this site can be...)

The larger bells all seemed to me to be like a bad MW 20 or 25 or a Yamaha 641, being somewhat more broad but lacking in clarity and with a lame upper register — again, for *me* as the driver.

There really is not rotary valved analog for the 19" bell Kings, but some horns do sound very similar to my ears, blending in a section together nearly perfectly.

THIS is the type of information/opinion I am looking for here.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby bloke » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:06 pm

possibly...The B&S 101 Alexander near-clones...during the era that they were handmade, sported a kranz, and the bell diameter was 16".

difference in tuning tendencies:
B&S 101 - excellent, other than saggy 5th partial
King - excellent, other than high-tending 6th partial
(yup, 5th and 6th partials, with most all tubas, are too far apart, and - when moved by bugle alterations - seem to move TOGETHER, and in the same direction.)

other differences:
speak for themselves

Otherwise, they both offer that "feel nice to blow through, great sound" experience.

Why not argue over which canned albacore tuna is the best?
At least, people can afford to buy one each of the two best of those.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby TheGoyWonder » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:59 pm

yer 1241-based 5-valve CC is not going to have the 19" bell anyways, it's going to have a much shorter bell.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby Ken Herrick » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:55 pm

TheGoyWonder wrote:yer 1241-based 5-valve CC is not going to have the 19" bell anyways, it's going to have a much shorter bell.

REALLY?????
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby the elephant » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:23 am

I am just talking about the sound, guys. Nothing else. Read and follow instructions. :tuba:
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby windshieldbug » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:10 am

the elephant wrote:Read and follow instructions.


TNFJ!? :shock:
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby the elephant » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:15 am

<I told you this would be entertaining. Ask a question. Sit back and enjoy the show.>
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby bort » Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:40 am

Maybe one of the old King rotary tubas?
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby bloke » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:14 pm

bort wrote:Maybe one of the old King rotary tubas?


:lol:

This $h!t has been going on for so very many years, we are all caricatures of ourselves.

' gotta love it...seriously.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby edsel585960 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:16 pm

windshieldbug wrote:
the elephant wrote:Read and follow instructions.


TNFJ!? :shock:

Asking a lot from a bunch of tuba players. :)
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby bort » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:27 pm

bloke wrote:
bort wrote:Maybe one of the old King rotary tubas?


:lol:

This $h!t has been going on for so very many years, we are all caricatures of ourselves.

' gotta love it...seriously.


Not sure if you are making fun of the question or the answer... I just meant that if you want something very similar in sound, maybe start with something very physically similar?
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby the elephant » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:46 pm

My question is simply a continuation of what we see on this site on a daily basis. I actually have no interest in the answer. I am just needling those who get it, and laughing at those who don't. BAHAHAHA!!!
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby bloke » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:51 pm

the elephant wrote:My question is simply a continuation of what we see on this site on a daily basis. I actually have no interest in the answer. I am just needling those who get it, and laughing at those who don't. BAHAHAHA!!!


' sorry...I just didn't get it at all... :?:
Please explain it further for us. :|

bloke wrote:Why not argue over which canned albacore tuna is the best?
At least, people can afford to buy one each of the two best of those.


This one, however, (sorry...) is a much better troll:
http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84704
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby the elephant » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:43 pm

Precisely.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby Three Valves » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:50 am

bloke wrote:
Why not argue over which canned albacore tuna is the best?


Packed in water or oil??
Who needs four valves??

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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby windshieldbug » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:52 am

bloke wrote:
Why not argue over which canned albacore tuna is the best?


Why not argue over which banned metaphor is the best?
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby pwhitaker » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:08 pm

Would a band metaphor include the phrase "no strings attached"? --- (Stream of semi-conciousness ...)
MISERICORDE, n.
A dagger which in mediaeval warfare was used by the foot soldier to remind an unhorsed knight that he was mortal.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby MaryAnn » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:32 pm

I'm SHADDUPING.
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Re: TNFJ Opinion Time

Postby iiipopes » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:57 pm

Oh, God, I hate to admit this, but the newer 186's with the "vanilla" toned 17 3/4 inch bell comes the closest to my ears to the detachable bell Kings I played in high school, with two intonation exceptions:
1) Kings had pretty good 5th partials; Miraphones have the classic flat 5th partials;
and by contrast:
2) Kings have sharp 6th partials; Miraphones have pretty good 6th partials.

Oh, Lord, forgive my heresy....
Last edited by iiipopes on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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