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The Jupiter 582 is the most bang for the buck in my opinion.

More opinions here...

I've never been a fan of St. Pete's, but I've only played one. Jupiter is a pretty good bet for a school horn, also yamaha if you can afford it.

I would agree regarding the Weril and Jupiter. I would skip the St. Pete's because I don't think they are as sturdy as the others. Another to consider for only a little more money would be the King 2341.

banihex wrote:

Buying rotary valve tubas for schools is like kicking yourself in the rear end. Regardless of the quality, students will break linkages and bend (never completely repairable) rotor stems when they knock these instruments over.

Further, school kids today (unfortunately...no matter how you try to "teach" them otherwise...' very bad parenting, on average) view equipment as disposable and treat it as such.

I never witnessed such things with tubas at my school. We had some great Yamaha rotor valve bflats, and they are in fine condition, and have been used for the past 6-7 years, and trust me the kids at my school couldn't even spell 'respect' let alone had any for much.

Instill pride in your band program, and don't let them do such things! I point that problem at the band director, they may act one way at home, but make it clear you do not act like trash within the program.

Agreed! My school has 2 three-year old MW 25s with very little wear (the usual places show a few scratches) and absolutely ZERO damage to the valves and linkages

I don't much care for being judged on the actions of other members of my demographic - I'm sure no more than Bloke likes being labeled crusty or out-of-touch based on his age alone.

This may sound like heresy, but for schools, I like top-action instruments for two reasons. First, the kids aren't going to pick them up by the thumbring. Second, there's nothing sticking out in front of the instrument to get banged on. Good bow guards are important too. A number of manufacturers have either eliminated top bow guards or minimized them.

The old Besson 3-valve top-action New Standards were decent players and built like tanks.

All in all, the Yamaha YBB-321 isn't a terrible tuba in that light (being, in essence a Besson copy). I suspect the same might be said of the Weril knockoff.

banihex wrote:I don't understand why one would be motivated to buy lesser quality instruments in the fear of them getting damaged. If you give a student a great horn, there is a great chance they will be motivated to practice and get better.

If a kid is purposely damaging a instrument, isn't that like 'destruction of school property' or whatever. Just let 'em know if they freakin do something to the horn you will turn them over to the sro to deal with. If that doesn't work, then just buy a decent pistol.

Music stands get knocked over, horns get dropped (I once saw this happen to a particular Conn bariphonium three times in the space of a 50-minute class. Even more of a thorny issue is the treatment of instruments by children who have been "mainstreamed", that is, children with behavioral or psychological problems who have been judged suitable for integratoin into the general school population with minimal special supervision. Some of these kids find their way into band and you'd better not get punitive with them or you'll get all sorts of grief from the legal people. (The bariphonium abuser in question had been assessed to be mildly autistic).

Heck, I've seen band directors knock over instrucments.

There was nothing second-rate about the old Bessons and the Yamaha YBB-321 if kept in good repair, is a very decent student horn.

I just wanted to register another vote for everything Chuck has said. The Yamaha YBB-321 makes a GREAT school horn. It's even a pretty good horn for college bands. When I was in college, the school had other tubas for the music majors, but most of the concert band tuba players who weren't majors played on a YBB-321.

Chuck(G) wrote:Heck, I've seen band directors knock over instruments.

On my first day of student teaching (with one of the most well-respected band directors in the state at the time), I watched in dismay as the director sat on a timpani while teaching. I was remembering my percussion method class, where the instructor had cautioned us to move a timpani by holding on to the body - but never the rim. "Moving a timpani by the rim is like dragging a brass player by the lips."

So, I didn't even want to think about what sitting on a timpani is like . . .

My school now has four Miraphone 186's. Two we've had for about five years, and they lasted that long with hardly a scratch. We got one more last year and another new one this year. Now all four horns look like crap, even the new ones have been knocked over, and they've gone back to being treated like junk.
A year ago I would have argued that some schools can handle the nice instruments, but it really matters the kind of kids you have playing them. For the past few years, we've had mostly serious players. The rest have since graduated (two going into music) and now we've got a group of morons who knock stuff over and say, "Well, it's not like it's mine."

By the way, aren't St. Pete tubas a little hard to get ahold of for school consumption? I was under the impression that they were kind of a pain to get over here.

I bought one of those Besson New Standards used when I just got out of college 25 years ago. It's 34 years old years old now and it is built like a tank. It feels like it is twice as heavy as my Rudy Meinl. Horn has survived falling down a flight of stairs in its case and me landing on top. Horn came out looking great - can't say the same for me!

Horn is a 3 valve comp and plays well. Yes, the bottom has resistance but you learn to play through it. Notes slot extremely well and it has both an excellent high and low end and a nice sweet sound. If it wasn't for the fact that I don't like upright valves (and the lousy ergonomics of the horn in general) it would rank right up there as a terrific horn.

This could be the exception to the rule as I've never owned much less played any other Bessons or the knock off versions. If the others play similiarly to this one I would say it would be an excellent school horn both in terms of durability and playability. I would say that if you could buy them used for $1000 and had an economy overhaul done to them you would have an excellent instrument for less than $2000 that would play well and give years of excellent service while withstanding less than great care from high schoolers.

The New Standards had one other advantage--if the student insisted on playing with the fingerings shown in "the book", the 1+3 combinations stood a fair chance of playing in tune owing to the compensating system.

bloke wrote:Unlike Jupiter, Weril pistons don't turn black and seize every few months.

Jupiter claims that they are now making their valves out of stainless steel, so just maybe that problem has been solved.

I tested most of the horn mentioned in this thread at the NAMM Show last January and I thought the Jupiter 582 out played most, if not all, of them.

This thread seems to have gotten away from the point of the original question. What is a good "affordable" tuba? Purchase price considerations seem to have floated out the window... Miraphone, Yamaha, MW and Besson are wonderful horns, but are just a bit on the high side of the price scale.

davidmudd wrote:Thank you for all of the opinions! I would love to go with the new Kings, but from what I figure even a competitive bid price would be over $4k. I am looking for tubas for $3K and under. While I am at this, I ought to ask you guys think about Euphs. I love yamahas but they are definately too expensive. I have played the Jupiters before, but the valves were not all that hot. But that is the price range I am looking at. Any other opinions on good euphonium values? Thanks Again!

How abouit the Weril H980? Virtually a knockoff of the YEP-321 but with a bass shank receiver. Construction quality isn't quite as meticulous, but your students won't be jamming the valves in cattywumpus (I've always wanted to use that word in a Tubenet post because the top of the valve casing hasn't been relieved. DEG handles them and parts aren't hard to obtain.

I just wanted to make a comment on the Cerveny tubas (and the many stencils they are sold under.) A lot of schools buy them for the price point/ The quality can vary widely, but they can be excellent horns. HOWEVER, they absolutely will not withstand school abuse because of teh thin soft brass used. A couple of years ago the district in my town chose to buy several Cervenys because they were about $1000 cheaper than the stronger built Miraphone S186, and they were able to get one more tuba for the same money. The horns are now in fair to terrible condition. Interestingly ehough, they have a Yamaha 4 rotar BBb that is twice as old as the Cervenys but in the same or better condition, that thing is built pretty strong.
Don't think I completely knocking Cervenys because they make a great horn for the serious player. However, I just feel they don't belong in the average school system.
FWIW, I think we should cut the kids a little slack. Tubas are big awkward items that are very fragile, and kids are clumsy. Some denting (but not trashing) will happen no matter how hard we try. How many of us ever dented a horn when we were in school?

bloke wrote:Further, school kids today (unfortunately...no matter how you try to "teach" them otherwise...' very bad parenting, on average) view equipment as disposable and treat it as such

Go to dalyantubas.com and check out the Berlin and the Perinet. Either of these three would make a great school horn especially for the price. They are being distributed by Orpheus Music in San Antonio and can be purchased through your local music dealer or WWBB.

Good luck.

Lee,

I've looked at the Dalyan site and am very curious about these tubas, hoping that they are good horns.

Apparently, you have tried some of the Dalyan tubas? If so, are any of them a "Pro" level horn? I'm particularly interested in the Dalyan CC tuba.

Hi Ace,

Yes I have played on all of the Dalyan tubas and have even used the F and the CC at work, so in a manner of speaking you might say they are "pro" horns.

As for the CC you expressed interest in, it is a nice smallish 4/4 tuba that produces a good tone. The one (only one for now) that is here is a 4 valve but I believe the newer models will be coming in with 5 (don't hold me to that until I see them myself).

The main focus right now is developing the best BBb school horns possible at a very competative price, so don't hold your breath for the next breakthrough CC or F anytime soon.

I hope that answers your question.