Advice on my Keefer Eb

[fenne1ca]

Hello all! I recently bought a 100+ year-old Keefer 3v Eb tuba. It's a neat horn, and a lot of fun to play. My questions, however, are:

1. Being that this horn has a small-shank receiver, am I better off buying a small-shank 'piece special, or buying an insert/extension (pardon my ignorance of terminology) to adjust the receiver to modern size?

2. This horn plays well below A=440 even with slides all the way in, which I gather is typical for instruments of this vintage. Is this an issue that would be mitigated by a properly sized mouthpiece, or is having tubing cut the only way?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Does it have one of those ‘W’ tuning slides? Enamel Keefer finger buttons? Try as best to keep it as original as possible. First off, get a smaller shank mthpce and see how the pitch is? IF, after that, if it is still low, the t.s. May need to be shortened. Similar stamped designs all over the horn ala Distin or a later Keefer? Pics? Serial #’s( might have two, like Distin- one on bell and one on valve casing)?
Cheers-
Mark

[opus37]

My experience with restoring old Eb tubas to modern playing condition says that using a small shank mouthpiece like a Denis Wick 3 (not the 3L), will make little if any change in the ability of tune horn to 440. You likely will have to shorten the tuning slide (and maybe other individual valve slides). I always try to have my horns have their tuning slide out a bit when tuned to 440 so there is some room for temperature and humidity changes. Unless your horn is a perfect example of the horn, I suggest changing the mouthpiece receiver to accommodate standard American shank mouthpieces and then plan on shortening the main tuning slide. Be prepared to shorten individual valve slides too.

[TheGoyWonder]

"standard" old Eb size (pretty small) or "giant" old Eb size (outermost body + bell as big as a BBb)

[fenne1ca]

"standard" old Eb size (pretty small) or "giant" old Eb size (outermost body + bell as big as a BBb)

"Standard" old size. Off-hand, I'd call it a 3/4 horn. Definitely wouldn't confuse the bell for a BBb. I'll link to some pics soon - I have commiitted a TubeNet faux pas by not including the horn dorn in the original post, I hope y'all can forgive me.

[windshieldbug]

I had a very similar horn that I used as my orchestral bass tuba until I could afford a decent F. They are surprisingly good and very usable horns if you don’t try to make them play like a modern Besson.

Here was my experience:
Even if you swap the receiver, if you use too big a modern normal-sized mouthpiece it will make the intonation very funky, and will require a lot of chops work to correct.

If it WAS built to A=435, the only thing that will make it usable with modern ensembles is either cutting a little off the main tuning slide or, if you can, getting or making a shorter one. There ARE some around on Keefers that have had the bell smashed to use as a starter. They’re good horns, so they sold well.

Sort those things out first and then see where you stand with the valve slides. Most horns of that era were designed to play either at High Pitch OR Low Pitch, depending on the main tuning slide, so they may already be a bit short and actually need pulling, not cutting.

[Doug Elliott]

You may not want to spend the price that my mouthpieces are, but I can easily make shanks that will fit and possibly help with the pitch. Lots of choices in rim and cup that will actually work well with that type of horn.

[imperialbari]

There ARE some around on Keefers that have had the bell smashed to use as a starter.

You mean that some people flattened the outer bell flare to raise the pitch?

Klaus

[windshieldbug]

There ARE some around on Keefers that have had the bell smashed to use as a starter.

You mean that some people flattened the outer bell flare to raise the pitch?

Klaus

No, I meant that there are Keefers out there that have unfortunately had bell damage that is not fixable.

[imperialbari]

Good!

From one sample in my gallery this model looks fatter than the very good small non-compensating Besson (Westminster or 700) beginner’s tuba, but not nearly as fat as the US monster models of 100+ years ago, which would make it less likely that the open 2nd partial would be excessively flat.

From measuring with my eyes only I would see another, fixable, tuning problem similar to the said Besson model. The fairly compact body wrap will let a 3rd slide of the true length (for lowering the main bugle a minor third) extend below the bottom bow. It looks like this 3rd slide was made too short on purpose, so that it would fit in a case with no modifications to the round end. The fix is a simple pull and some attention when placing the tuba on the player’s chair for a supported playing position.

Klaus

[fenne1ca]

Posted some photos. Album: https://tinyurl.com/KeeferEb" target="_blank" target="_blank

No fancy enamel finger buttons, but does have the 'W' main slide. Currently in the shop for cleaning, and to repair some cracked slides. Obtained a couple of similar-vintage Keefer mouthpieces to try out, marked "Imperial" and "7." Jury's out on which I like more, further testing required before I buy. Most likely, I'll have a new main slide made for playing at A=440, but hold onto the original for historic purposes. Will post more photos when the horn is shiny and clean!

[greatk82]

I have the identical horn. I’ve been toying with having it cut to 440

[fenne1ca]

Horn is back from a cleaning, along with dent and cracked-slide repair. It's like a whole new tuba! Still toying with having the horn cut to 440 versus having a new slide made. I don't want to sacrifice the unique shape of the main slide - will talk to my tech about it. New photos at https://tinyurl.com/KeeferEb2" target="_blank if you want a look.

[Heliconer]

Horn is back from a cleaning, along with dent and cracked-slide repair. It's like a whole new tuba! Still toying with having the horn cut to 440 versus having a new slide made. I don't want to sacrifice the unique shape of the main slide - will talk to my tech about it. New photos at https://tinyurl.com/KeeferEb2" target="_blank" target="_blank if you want a look.

I can't decide which is cooler, the Keefer, or the Steven Universe Tattoo.

[groovlow]

I like the Keefer photos, I love the sound of Ebs form this period.
I've experienced good results with shorter or longer main tuning slides.
Get a new one fabricated! Keep the MTS outer slide original.
An American standard receiver will be to your advantage.

I want to play it, never have seen one, looks like medium Eb to me.
How are the privilege tones?
Joe H