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Does anyone know what "D.N." stamped into the tuning slides of a very old Cerveny might mean?

FWIW this tuba seems to have been built in F but has an extra long MTS and plays in Eb. Each valve slide has a line with "ES" and "D.N." on the crook side of the line. My assumption is that the line demarks the nominal "fully closed" position of the slides when using the Eb slide. Because of that I wonder if the "D.N." is pitch related (low pitch or something?).

Any hints much appreciated - Klaus, have you ever seen anything like this?

If the tuba is from before 1920, it may have been built to the old Bohemian and Austrian band pitch, which was a full semitone higher than modern pitch. That is A was at 466Hz (the old British high pitch was at A=458Hz or so).

Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Germany were extremely poor after WWI, so bands could not afford buying instruments at the new lower pitch. Hence there was a new systematic production of pigtails for the leadpipes, and main tuning slides were changed. With tubas we see the MTS crook replaced with a full loop. My Cerveny de Luxe Kaiserbariton has a funny sock shaped crook to add length.

Es is the term for Eb in German and Nordic speaking countries. Without at least seeing photos of your tuba and of its slides I cannot tell, whether the tuba originally was in high F (de facto in F#) or in high Eb (de facto in E natural), but from your posting I lean towards the latter being the case. I don’t know the Slavonic term for pitch, but new is somesthing like novaja, so D. N. may just mean New Pitch.

My very old Zelenka of Praha rotary flugelhorn came to me without its moveable tuning leadpipe. Fortunately the leadpipes from my small bore Selmer piccolo trumpet fitted perfectly. They make the Zelenka play in B natural at A=440Hz

Klaus

I don't know if it's relevant here, but D.N. could stand for "Diapason Normale" which is/was a pitch standard (originally French, but widely adopted) that specified 435 Hz for the A above middle C (which is currently specified by the treaty of Versailles, and by ISO 16, as 440 Hz).

Very well could be the right answer!

If the instrument was made to be at A=435Hz with a little pull, then some players would be able to play it at A=440Hz with the tuning slide pushed in all the way.

Klaus

Thank you both for your input.

With the F slide, it plays almost 45 cent flat with the slide all of the way in so I suspect that the A=435 tuning suggestion is correct or close. I have a Jacob Low tuba of similar vintage that Dan Schultz built a new lead pipe for because ha said that it played "almost in A". I will probably take that path with this one when Allied comes back from holiday/inventory break.

Thanks again! Photos when I've made it all pretty (Dan repaired the shipping damage already).

Photos of the present situation are better than after changes. This is about how things really are, not about a beauty contest.

I still think you interpret the situation wrongly. This is not a flat F tuba. It is a sharp Eb tuba.

Klaus

imperialbari wrote:Photos of the present situation are better than after changes. This is about how things really are, not about a beauty contest.

I still think you interpret the situation wrongly. This is not a flat F tuba. It is a sharp Eb tuba.

Klaus

With the long tuning slide it plays very close to modern Eb with the MTS all of the way in. This slide is approximately 12" longer than the short slide.

With the short slide it plays a bit less than a quarter tone flat from modern F with MTS all of the way in.

There are markings on the slide legs engraved "ES", which to me indicates the intended position of the valve tuning slides when using the long MTS. The intonation is quite close when used in that manner.