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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:08 am

It seems to me (??) that an analog way to design a 6/4 mute would be to

- take a picture of a 6/4 tuba bell - straight on, from a given distance/zoom
- take a picture of a 206 spun mute - straight on, from a given distance/zoom.
- enlarge the picture of the 206 until - superimposed against the 6/4 bell - it appears to be a proper fit
- adjust the curvature and opening diameter as seems suitable
- make a mold and a prototype
- test / poll
- *discount the opinions of marginal players, and discount the opinions of players who seem to be able to make anything work

I've never been able to be convinced that a 4/4 tuba mute - with 3" of cork added - is an ~actual~ 6/4 mute. Someone can stick their arm down in your bell when you're playing, and it doesn't change your sound very much. Here's my Wick with a total of almost 1" (radius) or almost 2" (diameter) of total cork, so that it fits my 5/4 size tuba...so I would consider my Wick mute BARELY a legitimate 5/4 mute...and it works (well) and mutes (well) with my 5/4. It's ~not~, however, a 6/4 mute at all.
Wick tuba mute.JPG
Wick tuba mute.JPG (67.04 KiB) Viewed 906 times

bloke " *...ok...I can make a 208 'work' with a 6/4 tuba, but I certainly do not 'enjoy' making a 208 work with a 6/4 tuba...so is that 'bragging'...??"
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby TheGoyWonder » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:45 am

meh...watched video, skipped to playing part, and didnt' really register as a muted brass sound.
Either a new product is needed, or 6/4 tubas don't really produce the right tones to begin with...mutes work by cancelling the low frequencies to thin the sound, not by adding anything.
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:14 pm

TheGoyWonder wrote:meh...watched video, skipped to playing part, and didnt' really register as a muted brass sound.
Either a new product is needed, or 6/4 tubas don't really produce the right tones to begin with...mutes work by cancelling the low frequencies to thin the sound, not by adding anything.


:idea:
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bisontuba » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:26 pm

I have of the old Ron Apperson ‘J’ mutes that he made for Jacobs and his York. In fact, it was the last one Ron made. It looks like it is too small diameter wise to work in a 6/4, but it works like a charm. Don’t know what he did, but Ron hit the nail on the head with the J mute for 6/4s....
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:00 pm

bisontuba wrote:I have of the old Ron Apperson ‘J’ mutes that he made for Jacobs and his York. In fact, it was the last one Ron made. It looks like it is too small diameter wise to work in a 6/4, but it works like a charm. Don’t know what he did, but Ron hit the nail on the head with the J mute for 6/4s....


Is it cone-shaped? (flat-sided)
Those looked to me like "particularly well-made Tennessee Tech mutes".
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby the elephant » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:22 pm

Yes. The end caps were redwood rather than plywood. I always suspected the Tech Tuba Mute was a poor man's copy of Ron's mute. Ron's were very similar but much more nicely finished and of higher quality materials.
Click here for a look at the best 6/4 now on the market...
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:13 pm

the elephant wrote:Yes. The end caps were redwood rather than plywood. I always suspected the Tech Tuba Mute was a poor man's copy of Ron's mute. Ron's were very similar but much more nicely finished and of higher quality materials.


Redwood, likely, would allow them to be more resonant than with plywood. Yes, I agree with your (appropriately reversed) description. It's just that (surely: due to pricing) there were more of the TT mutes floating around "back in the day".
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby Roger Lewis » Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:41 am

American Way Marketing in Elkhart, Indiana carries an aluminum 6/4 Mute that is quite good. The brand is Faxx and they are reasonably priced. If your local music store deals with American Way, they can order one for you. AWM can't sell direct. I'll try to load a photo of mine in the next day or so.

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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:26 am

Actually, I (Mid-South Music, Inc.) am/is an American Way Marketing dealer.
In the distant past, American Way had a connection with the old actually-made-in-USA Blessing Company, as
American Way's owner also worked for Blessing (I think, as a marketing specialist...??...Chuck Schlinkard - deceased...spelling...?? )

I'll look into the mute.

Roger, is it this Faxx Mute?
Yes, that looks like the mutes that you had on display (in Memphis years ago).
If "yes", it would be interesting to know the dimensions. I'll ask Sherry about it.

Image
Last edited by bloke on Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby the elephant » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:08 pm

Joe, if you can nail down the dimensions (or get some pics from AWM) of what is currently being made (or is perhaps available NOS) and you can get one, I would like to buy one from you. PM me with details, positive or negative, on your ability or willingness to put in an order. Thanks, very much. (Of course, this is if the dimensions are better suited to a 6/4 bell than the Denis Wick I just got.)

Roger, thanks for the heads up and the comment on the price and performance. I would be happy to try such a mute based on giving it the nod.
Click here for a look at the best 6/4 now on the market...
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:41 pm

I'm thinking of having Sherry mail/ship one to my brother's house in Arlington, taking some double-sided tape (for temporary goofing around) with my on my trip (as I actually have some), messing with the mute myself, and (perhaps...??) even taking orders for them at the Conference, if there is interest.

bloke "who isn't particularly fond of shipping stuff, but does not mind at all 'drop-shipping' stuff"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_shipping
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby the elephant » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:18 pm

I can pick it up, too. Remember I am only a six hour roundtrip drive and handle my own packages far better than any common carrier, and I also know where my front porch is, too. I won't deliver it to the wrong house.

Probably... ;-)

Whatever. If you *do* end up liking it to the point of offering some for sale please shoot me a PM to let me know what your price will be. If it is not a much better fit than the DW I just bought I will probably go with a Schlipf. I think I would rather have one of these, though. So if it meets your approval please let me know what I will need to do to get one. (Including a road trip, if drop shipping is not an option.)

It is funny how little I GAS about mutes until this past year or so. I just got tired of having to screw with my pair that are too small for the Holton. It became frustrating. I decided I want really nice mutes, I guess.
Click here for a look at the best 6/4 now on the market...
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:11 pm

LOL...
I wouldn't drive six hours for a tuba mute.
If they are as good as Roger says, I'm sure I can have one shipped to you from Indiana, or I can meet up with you when we are wandering around Mississippi doing our spring tour to who knows where. We wandered around northern Mississippi in the fall, so probably we will be down somewhere that-away this spring.
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby Mark Finley » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:18 pm

If you get it in time, maybe you could bring one to DC with you? My 601 won't be there, but maybe I can find a similar sized bell to try it out in.
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby Jess Haney » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:27 pm

Our brass band uses the humes and berg 206s i think for our willson 3100s they work great with no extra cork.
Pikes Peak Brass Band
Rocky Mountain Wind Symphony
Monument Hill Brass Quintet
Willson BBb 3100 FA5
Willson Eb 3400 FA5

..and a miriad of other JUNK not worth mentioning.
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby MEWienand » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:10 am

Good morning
I play in Brass Band and have muted parts all the time. I use a mute by Ion Balu. He still sells them and they are 5/4 and 6/4 size. I used it in my 5/4 Willson Tuba. He has 3 different sizes to fit most tubas. He also has 2 different models for tuba. The corks are all velcro attached and have several locations to put the corks so no extra mess or fuss, just find the best place for your horn and set it up. http://www.balumusik.com" target="_blank" target="_blank
Its worth the look. They play very well. and Look nice too. PS When using mine I keep a bari sax stand on hand to hold it as I have had some very fast changes to make in parts and it made it alot easier to pull it and just hang it then go to the floor with it.
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby the elephant » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:03 pm

MEWienand wrote:Good morning
I play in Brass Band and have muted parts all the time. I use a mute by Ion Balu. He still sells them and they are 5/4 and 6/4 size. I used it in my 5/4 Willson Tuba. He has 3 different sizes to fit most tubas. He also has 2 different models for tuba. The corks are all velcro attached and have several locations to put the corks so no extra mess or fuss, just find the best place for your horn and set it up. http://www.balumusik.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Its worth the look. They play very well. and Look nice too. PS When using mine I keep a bari sax stand on hand to hold it as I have had some very fast changes to make in parts and it made it alot easier to pull it and just hang it then go to the floor with it.
Mark Wienand


Thanks, but I stated that I have one of his mutes and that I am specifically and ONLY looking for a spun aluminum mute.
Click here for a look at the best 6/4 now on the market...
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Re: New Mute for BAT?

Postby bloke » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:59 pm

update...

I received a good bit of communication for a day or two, and - for the last day or two - none.
Hopefully, I'll hear more soon...??
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