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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby bloke » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:54 am

$997 (Laabs Music) still doesn't motivate me.
- I neither desire to own nor need one of those.
- I doubt that I would have an easy time (again: since the new price is $997) reselling it for more, and - once sold - wouldn't appreciate subsequent calls/emails re: "issues".

At least, though, the price starts getting down closer to "casual" money (again, for a casual instrument).
Again (admittedly, repeating myself), $3000 could erase a considerable quantity of months away from someone's bondage (mortgage)...towards a life of liberty.

amortization.png
amortization.png (20.41 KiB) Viewed 705 times


bloke "I have a *ballad horn. Most here, likely, don't know what those are. It's pretty cool, and pitched in C. I have never used it on a gig - neither paid nor unpaid. That having been said, it cost me $50."

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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby Casca Grossa » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:26 pm

bloke wrote:$997 (Laabs Music) still doesn't motivate me.
- I neither desire to own nor need one of those.
- I doubt that I would have an easy time (again: since the new price is $997) reselling it for more, and - once sold - wouldn't appreciate subsequent calls/emails re: "issues".

At least, though, the price starts getting down closer to "casual" money (again, for a casual instrument).
Again (admittedly, repeating myself), $3000 could erase a considerable quantity of months away from someone's bondage (mortgage)...towards a life of liberty.

amortization.png


bloke "I have a *ballad horn. Most here, likely, don't know what those are. It's pretty cool, and pitched in C. I have never used it on a gig - neither paid nor unpaid. That having been said, it cost me $50."

*Image


Part of my work study in college was doing inventory in the instrument storage closet in the basement. We had about 10 of those collecting dust. I'll take it off your hands for $40, I'll even pay shipping. :wink:
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby bloke » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:38 pm

Casca Grossa wrote:
bloke wrote:$997 (Laabs Music) still doesn't motivate me.
- I neither desire to own nor need one of those.
- I doubt that I would have an easy time (again: since the new price is $997) reselling it for more, and - once sold - wouldn't appreciate subsequent calls/emails re: "issues".

At least, though, the price starts getting down closer to "casual" money (again, for a casual instrument).
Again (admittedly, repeating myself), $3000 could erase a considerable quantity of months away from someone's bondage (mortgage)...towards a life of liberty.

amortization.png


bloke "I have a *ballad horn. Most here, likely, don't know what those are. It's pretty cool, and pitched in C. I have never used it on a gig - neither paid nor unpaid. That having been said, it cost me $50."

*Image


Part of my work study in college was doing inventory in the instrument storage closet in the basement. We had about 10 of those collecting dust. I'll take it off your hands for $40, I'll even pay shipping. :wink:


I'd be willing to loan it to you (you: specific, and not the collective "you") for a few months...
I use a bass trumpet mouthpiece to play it.
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby funkcicle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:48 pm

bloke wrote:
- the tuba player actually not only plays the CORRECT CHORD CHANGES (yes, a TUBA player - and not a bass player - playing the correct changes), but ALSO is playing the correct PITCHES related to the correct chord changes. (I strongly suspect that he is also a bass player.)


Am curious, what is the alternative to this? Maybe it's the bassist in me but I can't really fathom not playing the correct chord changes and associated pitches to a song- that's kind of the job, innit? Is there another method common amongst tubists? Or do you mean to point out that he's walking the changes as opposed to just resting on root notes?
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby Ulli » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:02 pm

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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:16 pm

funkcicle wrote:
bloke wrote:
- the tuba player actually not only plays the CORRECT CHORD CHANGES (yes, a TUBA player - and not a bass player - playing the correct changes), but ALSO is playing the correct PITCHES related to the correct chord changes. (I strongly suspect that he is also a bass player.)


Am curious, what is the alternative to this? Maybe it's the bassist in me but I can't really fathom not playing the correct chord changes and associated pitches to a song- that's kind of the job, innit? Is there another method common amongst tubists? Or do you mean to point out that he's walking the changes as opposed to just resting on root notes?


Understand this:
I'm my own most severe critic. When someone records a live performance (i.e. "gig") of jazz band in which I participated (often, the bandleader will send me a video, or an audio track) and sends me videos of one or two songs (often with a "hey...we sound really good, don't we?" type of comment), what I have sometimes heard in my OWN playing has been (no...not "wrong" pitches or "wrong" changes, but) being just a bit "too clever" with the changes, which slightly detracted from the overall product/ensemble. This, moveover, has become a pet peeve of mine (in my OWN playing) and I'm striving to (mostly, though its ok to do a bit of it) eliminate "clever" bass line (out of - admittedly - boredom) creation in favor of SOLID bass line production.
------
That having been said - with many great exceptions (such as the gentleman on that video) - I hear tuba players (simply) playing the wrong d@mn notes (nothing whatsover in the chord or even hinting at the correct chord, much less harmonizing with the melody or solo line), or - at best - playing the wrong (though correct chord) chord tones (i.e. bad inversions).
More-and-more over time, though, I DO hear more-and-more tuba players doing a better-and-better job, and that makes me smile. Still, I strongly suspect, the best tuba bass line creators/producers ALSO play string/electric bass.

So called "early" jazz music is NOT "starter jazz". There are far more chord changes which move along far more quickly, and chord inversions and specific notes to follow other notes (not terribly dissimilar to Bach chorale bass line rules). Other than the "brass band/street band" genre (which is not the same type of "jazz" at all, really), bass lines in this genre are not "riff"-oriented in much of any of this music.


bloke "so no...This has nothing to do with 'two-beat' vs. 'four-beat' vs. 'big-four' bass lines. Simply, it was really nice hearing someone - with a tuba - doing their job really well."
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby Donn » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:25 pm

OK, I'll naturally take the contrary position - not a bass player, he's just a tuba player who has taken the trouble to learn to play a really fine bass line. Who knows, maybe he does play bass - who doesn't? (One of the bands I'm playing in lately has five members, and only one hasn't played bass at some point.) But 1) there are plenty of indifferent bass players, and 2) I think he takes advantage of the instrument, isn't just transferring string bass lines. What I like as much as the notes, is that he's right there with them, on the beat. Must be a lot of fun to play with.
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:43 pm

Sure...
Quite a few string bass players sport low skill levels.
Those of us who aren't-particularly-good at something (me: most everything) are - after all - the vast majority.
That having been said, the intervalic relationships (on the neck of a double bass or a bass guitar) are right there and (once past first position) absolutely consistent - both visually and in a tactile way - to experience and easily comprehend. This - vs. "the mashing of buttons that happen to grab the correct pitch found on the available overtone" - is a way that the double bass/bass guitar - in particular - actually can "teach" it's player (obviously, combined with a tremendous amount of listening and studying).

Donn...I don't disagree with you, but (I'm guessing) you can also see this point...and yes, he's with the percussionist. There is a great deal of (even at the highest levels...and no names here - other than admitting to my own guilt, when not concentrating as much as I should) "tuba player cowardice", with tuba players "following" an ensemble (wind band / jazz band / symphony orchestra / pit band / polka band) rather than *"driving the bus".
When a tuba player's sound occurs with the percussionist (or - if no percussionist - just "first" or "where it belongs") the tuba (both live and in recordings) suddenly seems much louder, as its sound's "presence" is maximized.

_________________________________________
*just an one example...
Several of us - over the past few months - have mentioned how much we enjoy performing Elmer Bernstein's "Magnificent Seven" Suite (in actuality, an overture). Think - at the beginning, as well as throughout - how much EASIER and MORE FUN we can make playing that piece for the rest of the orchestra when we "drive the bus" rather than "straggle along".
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby Donn » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:23 pm

One point I was going to make there was, and the tuba was the predominate bass instrument back in the day, so naturally ... And maybe it was, but then it occurred to me that I have never heard any record from back in the day, with a tuba player who played like that. Walter Page, whoever you want. Maybe I missed when that happened, but as far as I know, it's a much later development in the music. Along with the rest of the style, I guess.
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:50 pm

Donn wrote:One point I was going to make there was, and the tuba was the predominate bass instrument back in the day, so naturally ... And maybe it was, but then it occurred to me that I have never heard any record from back in the day, with a tuba player who played like that. Walter Page, whoever you want. Maybe I missed when that happened, but as far as I know, it's a much later development in the music. Along with the rest of the style, I guess.


As bebop and all sorts of things were sandwiched in between, the original 1920's jazz bands (no need to list musicians here) are - unavoidably - different from the revival of that music in the 1950's (no need to list musicians here). Something that I wish had caught on MORE is/was the Rollini's style (and use) of the bass saxophone. The lighter/brighter sound allowed for more departure from the (as I referred to above) strictly-functional bass line - yet without adding sonic "color-clutter".
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby roweenie » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:17 pm

bloke wrote:Something that I wish had caught on MORE is/was the Rollini's style (and use) of the bass saxophone. The lighter/brighter sound allowed for more departure from the (as I referred to above) strictly-functional bass line - yet without adding sonic "color-clutter".


YES!

Actually, the bass sax, in this kind of band, can function as two instruments in one, in that it fills two entirely different functions (lower register bass line, upper register solo), and the color is different enough between the two to make it more interesting in this context than tuba or bass fiddle.
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Re: I kind of want one now

Postby funkcicle » Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:35 pm

bloke wrote:That having been said, the intervalic relationships (on the neck of a double bass or a bass guitar) are right there and (once past first position) absolutely consistent - both visually and in a tactile way - to experience and easily comprehend.


Very true- stringed instruments are essentially key signature agnostic, so players need only learn the chord qualities and voicings in relation to the tonic before they're ready to navigate jazz charts (where the actual-notes-you-play are not explicitly spelled out.) Compared to brass instruments, where each key is a distinct minefield of wrong notes until you've developed either the thinking-capacity or the muscle memory to avoid them, and since ensemble-with-brass-instruments literature has been so heavily influenced by the instruments themselves (and their "easy" keys), many player never develop facility in the keys that string-oriented composers are more likely to write in.

When I was a tubist learning to play the bass I didn't full appreciate that advantage, but I did notice how quickly I became more comfortable composing bass lines on the fly than I ever was on the tuba. Now that I'm a bassist re-learning the tuba, I really appreciate the mental shift to thinking in terms of scale degrees and intervals (vs. key signatures, fingerings, and note names) that the string world effectively forced onto me.
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