Considering BBb again Bookmark and Share

The bulk of the musical talk

Considering BBb again

Postby bort » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:40 pm

After 20 years of playing CC, I am seriously considering changing back to BBb. Not because I want to, but because there simply seem to be more and better options for rotary tubas, particularly in a more reasonable price range (looking at you new Alex 163 and Tuono)

My brain seems to work in CC very well, and I like the quicker response of the slightly shorter horn. But sound is the only thing that anyone really cares about, and if this tuba makes the sound I want, and does it in tune, then maybe that's a really easy choice to make.

I feel a little dirty and a little confused about it, but logically, it all makes perfect sense.

Strongest options right now are the B&S GR 51 and GR 55. Possibly a Miraphone Hagen, but I don't know as much about them. For all 3 tubas, I'm not sure that there are really CC versions that exist or are affordable (my budget is around $8k)

Just thought I would share!
Willson 3050-RZ
Thein RCC
User avatar
bort
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 8941
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby Kory101 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:45 pm

I totally understand.

Last year, I was down at the Army Band Conference, shopping for a new horn for work. The tuba I kept coming back to was the MW Fafner.

They had every CC tuba you could imagine there and they were all fantastic but I kept coming back to the sound of the Bb and couldn't get it out of my head.

Mine is arriving this month!
1987 HB-2P
Kory101
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:07 pm

I've found that the truly magnificent BBb tubas aren't much less expensive than anything else.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38737
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby oedipoes » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:29 pm

My brain does not work in CC, so I personally stick with BBb and Eb...

I would also consider these, considering the size range just below your Willson:
Hirsbrunner 192 BBb
Rudi 4/4 BBb
Alex 163 BBb
Gronitz PBM... but probably very rare second hand, and expensive new (but available), and pistons
Both B&S horns you mention look like good choices as well.
User avatar
oedipoes
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 713
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:47 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:34 pm

I know that I sound like a broken record, but the Fafner 5P and Seigfried 98 are the two kick-butt (and quite large, yet play like 4/4) BBb tubas that are head-and-shoulders above most all other BBb tubas...and both are quite easy, indeed, to keep between the ditches - intonation-wise...
I've never played one of those Meinl-Weston (so-called) "Hitler" tubas...and the scuttlebutt is that they are not as easy to deal with, intonation-wise, but they sure sound fabulous on some recordings I've heard, particularly with exceptionally-fine operators behind them.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38737
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby the elephant » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:45 pm

Bort, I consider returning to BBb every day and have for years. I haven't done so yet, but I still might. I just like more BBb tubas than I do CC tubas. And when I like them I tend to like them *more* than I like CC tubas. Don't be embarrassed by this at all.

I may end up playing a CC, and F AND a BBb tuba in the near future. Lots of reasons, all excellent for me, but maybe not for others.
Gluten-Free slide grease: Can it cure chronic irregularity? Film at eleven.
User avatar
the elephant
Papa Legba
Papa Legba
 
Posts: 13075
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: 404 Not Found

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby Mark Finley » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:53 pm

If a hagen was gifted to me, I would never touch a CC tuba again

Amazing tubas
User avatar
Mark Finley
Low Brass Teacher
Low Brass Teacher
 
Posts: 4595
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:08 am
Location: Mesquite, TX

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:10 pm

Very candidly, my combined "symphony orchestras" per-service incomes rarely exceed the $1X,XXX annual level.
Were it (even) as high as $25K, I'd probably be looking to pick up a really nice BBb, and (likely) "the programming of Prokofiev 5" (were that to happen) would be the needed "excuse" to acquire one.

btw...
A friend was showing me (just today) some back-to-back Nirschl 6/4 CC vs. M-W 197 BBb excerpts played by a very fine player (someone who is mostly unknown in North America). The 197 "Hitler" tuba (to both of our sets of ears) offered the better sound, and (watching an actual player, rather than the repeated hearsay that I typed earlier in this thread) there was far LESS slide-pulling involved with the 197 compared to the Nirschl 6/4...

...and hey, check it out:
for uber-geeky players, the 197 has plenty of room on its mouthpipe tube to add a 5th and even a 6th rotor, as a 6th would offer options of amazingly well-in-tune B's and E's (which would render Ride of the Valkyries and Fountains of Rome even easier and more fun).

Image
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38737
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby roweenie » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:39 pm

Come back to the fold, Bort - all will be forgiven..... :wink: :tuba:
Trying to take life one day at a time
User avatar
roweenie
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:17 am
Location: Anyplace but here

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby djwpe » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:48 pm

Bort-

I tested the Hagen 495 (4/4) and Hagen 496 (5/4) next to the GR51 and preferred the Hagen 496 and preferred the Hagen greatly, in terms of sound and intonation. The Hagen is a great horn, and my Holton 345 is basically gathering dust. I didn't like the 4/4 Hagen 495 at all.

Try the Hagen. You'll like it. I love mine. Intonation is great, sound is great, nimble. And as per Matt Walters' suggestion, I've ended up using it with the included Miraphone TU43 Mouthpiece.

Don Winston
djwpe
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby apkujala » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:08 pm

Image

If I guessed and understood right there will be one of these coming to US, if not already there.
Last edited by apkujala on Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
apkujala
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:45 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:09 pm

Speaking of a Bb instrument, here's an extremely young player playing a piece that lesser/far-more-well-known players play not-as-well on an Eb instrument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhz3Mo1kA4M
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38737
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby GC » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:09 pm

bloke wrote:for uber-geeky players, the 197 has plenty of room on its mouthpipe tube to add a 5th and even a 6th rotor, as a 6th would offer options of amazingly well-in-tune B's and E's (which would render Ride of the Valkyries and Fountains of Rome even easier and more fun).

Image

Bloke,

A few years back, I remember you posting about an experiment you were considering about putting a super-short circuit valve (maybe quarter-tone?) to help with some of the more difficult intonation quirks. Did it ever work out? Do you use it in any of your horns?
1914 Conn Monster Eb (my avatar), ca. 1905 Fillmore Bros 1/4-size Eb; Denis Wick 3CC, 2CC; Bach 42B trombone; Ibanez SR-506 6-string bass, MarkBass 102P combo bass amp
User avatar
GC
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:52 am
Location: NW Georgia

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:12 pm

the elephant is using that tuba, right now, but states that he doesn't use the valve...so - I'm guessing - when he plays that tuba, he pulls slides instead.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38737
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bort » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:20 pm

apkujala wrote:Image

If I guessed and understood right there will be one of these coming to US, if not already there.


What is THAT?
Willson 3050-RZ
Thein RCC
User avatar
bort
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 8941
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby apkujala » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:25 pm

It's Nirschl B&F copy. I believe Yasuhito Sugiyama from Cleveland Orch. bought one.
apkujala
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:45 am
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby MaryAnn » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:01 pm

bloke wrote:Speaking of a Bb instrument, here's an extremely young player playing a piece that lesser/far-more-well-known players play not-as-well on an Eb instrument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhz3Mo1kA4M



Why would anyone play this on an Eb trumpet (assuming I actually watched the right video?) The highest note is a high C and the lowest note is a middle C. It seems perfectly suited for a Bb trumpet.
User avatar
MaryAnn
Occasionally Visiting Pipsqueak
Occasionally Visiting Pipsqueak
 
Posts: 2690
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:58 am

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:06 pm

MaryAnn wrote:Why would anyone play this on an Eb trumpet (assuming I actually watched the right video?) The highest note is a high C and the lowest note is a middle C. It seems perfectly suited for a Bb trumpet.


I've never played it on any trumpet, so you're asking the wrong person.
Further, I'm actually promoting the thread's general idea of the glorification of playing "lowest-pitched" brass instruments, so I'm not the one with whom to take up the argument. :D
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38737
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby GC » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:21 pm

I think this is a transposed-for-Bb-trumpet version. It sounds lower than what I'm used to.
1914 Conn Monster Eb (my avatar), ca. 1905 Fillmore Bros 1/4-size Eb; Denis Wick 3CC, 2CC; Bach 42B trombone; Ibanez SR-506 6-string bass, MarkBass 102P combo bass amp
User avatar
GC
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:52 am
Location: NW Georgia

Re: Considering BBb again

Postby Kory101 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:30 pm

GC wrote:I think this is a transposed-for-Bb-trumpet version. It sounds lower than what I'm used to.


Nope, it's in the original key.
1987 HB-2P
Kory101
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 516
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:50 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada

Next

Return to TubeNet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Davy, Google Adsense [Bot], liebln, Mikelynch, tubadaddy92 and 18 guests