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After 20 years of playing CC, I am seriously considering changing back to BBb. Not because I want to, but because there simply seem to be more and better options for rotary tubas, particularly in a more reasonable price range (looking at you new Alex 163 and Tuono)

My brain seems to work in CC very well, and I like the quicker response of the slightly shorter horn. But sound is the only thing that anyone really cares about, and if this tuba makes the sound I want, and does it in tune, then maybe that's a really easy choice to make.

I feel a little dirty and a little confused about it, but logically, it all makes perfect sense.

Strongest options right now are the B&S GR 51 and GR 55. Possibly a Miraphone Hagen, but I don't know as much about them. For all 3 tubas, I'm not sure that there are really CC versions that exist or are affordable (my budget is around $8k)

Just thought I would share!

I totally understand.

Last year, I was down at the Army Band Conference, shopping for a new horn for work. The tuba I kept coming back to was the MW Fafner.

They had every CC tuba you could imagine there and they were all fantastic but I kept coming back to the sound of the Bb and couldn't get it out of my head.

Mine is arriving this month!

My brain does not work in CC, so I personally stick with BBb and Eb...

I would also consider these, considering the size range just below your Willson:
Hirsbrunner 192 BBb
Rudi 4/4 BBb
Alex 163 BBb
Gronitz PBM... but probably very rare second hand, and expensive new (but available), and pistons
Both B&S horns you mention look like good choices as well.

Come back to the fold, Bort - all will be forgiven.....

If I guessed and understood right there will be one of these coming to US, if not already there.

bloke wrote: for uber-geeky players, the 197 has plenty of room on its mouthpipe tube to add a 5th and even a 6th rotor, as a 6th would offer options of amazingly well-in-tune B's and E's (which would render Ride of the Valkyries and Fountains of Rome even easier and more fun).

Bloke,

A few years back, I remember you posting about an experiment you were considering about putting a super-short circuit valve (maybe quarter-tone?) to help with some of the more difficult intonation quirks. Did it ever work out? Do you use it in any of your horns?

apkujala wrote:

If I guessed and understood right there will be one of these coming to US, if not already there.

What is THAT?

It's Nirschl B&F copy. I believe Yasuhito Sugiyama from Cleveland Orch. bought one.

bloke wrote:Speaking of a Bb instrument, here's an extremely young player playing a piece that lesser/far-more-well-known players play not-as-well on an Eb instrument.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jhz3Mo1kA4M

Why would anyone play this on an Eb trumpet (assuming I actually watched the right video?) The highest note is a high C and the lowest note is a middle C. It seems perfectly suited for a Bb trumpet.

I think this is a transposed-for-Bb-trumpet version. It sounds lower than what I'm used to.

GC wrote:I think this is a transposed-for-Bb-trumpet version. It sounds lower than what I'm used to.

Nope, it's in the original key.

Yes. Upon researching, the version I'm used to is a transposed version for Eb soprano cornet. My mistake.

Back to tuba... Thanks for the kind words and advice. Giving a serious look at the Hagen 496 now as well.

After 20+ years of playing CC and F tubas, I very seriously tried some BBbs a few months ago. I spent a great deal of time with 2 separate GR55s (about 5 days with each), a bit of time on a 4/4 Hagen, and a bit of time on a 187. I really loved the sound that came out of the GR55 (one played easier and offered better pitch than the other). Good pitch and big low register. It wasn't the most nimble instrument, at least in my hands. The 187 was just a great, great instrument. Great intonation. VERY flexible instrument, VERY easy to play in every register. The 4/4 Hagen didn't play dissimilar to the 187, but had a darker and heavier sound. Like the 187, it just handled so easily all over the horn. Intonation was very good, maybe a spot better than the better of the two GR55s.

I ended up sticking with the CC, but all of those instruments made strong cases for themselves. I liked the sound of the GR55, I liked the playability of the 187.

The Hagen was the best of both worlds.

Good luck with it, Bort. All of those tubas offer a lot of bang for the buck, when one considers the price point of their CC brethren. Pack a lunch and go to Dillon Music.

Thanks for the rundown! How did the 187 play in the low register? I'm a huge fan of the 188, except the low range is just not as open or easy as I would prefer it to be.

What is the CC that you stayed with?

MaryAnn wrote: Why would anyone play this on an Eb trumpet (assuming I actually watched the right video?) The highest note is a high C and the lowest note is a middle C. It seems perfectly suited for a Bb trumpet.

Completely off-topic, but it was originally played on an E Major keyed trumpet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XkrFxPBLXQ

I'm amazed no one mentioned the Miraphone 91. I tried one and it absolutely kicked aXX. I could zip around on it like a race car and still put out a sound which the listener physically felt. Intonation was spot on until low 2nd partial E (I didn't really explore it lower then that).
Or was this just a magic 91 out a herd of "meh" tubas?

I also would look into an Alex.
A Cerveny can also be a winner, but the saying "try before you buy" counts double for these horns. The modern ones I tried had the same kind of easy blowing characteristics an Alex has.
Is that a sheet metal thing?

I have always been somewhat puzzled why people want to learn BBb just to play particular pieces (like Prok. 5). I would argue if you had the same player play a 6/4 CC and then a 6/4 BBb, the majority of the tuba playing audience wouldn't be able to guess which was which. If you open that audience up to the general public, I would say less than 5% of them would be able to tell the difference. Maybe it's just a convenient excuse to convince the wife that you need another tuba.

doublebuzzing wrote:I have always been somewhat puzzled why people want to learn BBb just to play particular pieces (like Prok. 5). I would argue if you had the same player play a 6/4 CC and then a 6/4 BBb, the majority of the tuba playing audience wouldn't be able to guess which was which. If you open that audience up to the general public, I would say less than 5% of them would be able to tell the difference. Maybe it's just a convenient excuse to convince the wife that you need another tuba.

For me, both in budget and room in my house, i am a one tuba person.

But for a working professional, sure, why not!

The GR51 and GR55 are two of the best all-round BBb tubas out there if you want to take the next step in price up from a 186 or 187. When I got to try a GR51 some years ago, my immediate impression was the great scale, great intontation, and easy response, My recurring thought was that if I had been 20 years younger and a tuba major, I would have bought it right then and there. As it is, I went home with the lady I brought to the dance.