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How many "original" York CC tubas do we have now?

Postby besson900 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:16 am

Hello guys!

I was thinking about how many York CC tubas were made and do you know how many of them are still playable? I know about two of them - Gene Pokorny tubas and one was for sale few months ago, but i didnt hear about other York CC tubas :|

Here is the link to this orginal York CC for sale ( the price is so high btw. :shock: :shock: :shock: )

http://tubista.com/tuba_york/" target="_blank
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby YORK-aholic » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:21 am

There are essentially two categories of CC tuba that were originally made by York.

There were 2 of the 6/4 CCs made that had 20 inch bells, both of which went through Arnold Jacobs' hands, then to the Chicago Symphony. They are not exact matches to each other. These are the 'model' that have spawned quite a few copies or 'starting points' by (1st) Holton, Hirsbrunner, Meinl Weston, all the way through Yamaha. The tuba you linked to is one such 'copy' made by Monke.

There were a limited number of 4/4 or 5/4 (size description depending on who you ask) York CCs that had a bell of roughly 18 inches and the model number of 692.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby Peach » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:31 am

besson900 wrote:Hello guys!

Here is the link to this orginal York CC for sale( the price is so high btw. :shock: :shock: :shock: )

http://tubista.com/tuba_york/" target="_blank


Yeah, that is NOT an Original York.
It's a copy.
Also I think the asking price is highly optimistic!
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby Donn » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:34 am

Copied by whom? Now I worry that someone will call my York (#3) a copy, when I get around to selling it.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby thevillagetuba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:40 am

Donn wrote:Copied by whom? Now I worry that someone will call my York (#3) a copy, when I get around to selling it.


Here is the add for that tuba in the For Sale forum:
http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85370&p=641591&hilit=Monke#p641591

It clearly states that it was made by Josef Monke in Cologne, Germany in 1987 as a copy of the famous York.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby Bnich93 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:51 am

The Monke horns don't look like they share many characteristics with the 6/4 "Chicago" Yorks. I think the similarities are only in being big and in CC. The Nirschl, Yamaha, Hirsbrunner, and dare I say the Chinese copies seem to be significantly more faithful to the original horns.

I believe that York only made two of the 6/4 horns and a handful of the 692 model in CC.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby the elephant » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:02 pm

Donn wrote:Copied by whom? Now I worry that someone will call my York (#3) a copy, when I get around to selling it.


It says in the ad.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby the elephant » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:10 pm

There were only two 6/4 CC 4+1 front action tubas made by Bill Johnson at York in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Both were owned by Arnold Jacobs and played for many years in the CSO. Currently, one is owned by Gene Pokorny of the CSO and the other is owned by the CSO itself, I think. (I could be very wrong about that.)

I am assuming that you are asking specifically about the 6/4 CC tubas and not some other model. This horn was made using parts from existing BBb models, and a rotary valve with a flat whole step was added to the four pistons. The two horns are noticeably different when placed side by side. One was the horn made for the Philadelphia Orchestra and one was kept as a factory reference model, I believe. It ended up at the University of Oklahoma in very bad shape. Mr. Jacobs bought it so he could have both of these horns.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby besson900 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:54 pm

the elephant wrote:
I am assuming that you are asking specifically about the 6/4 CC tubas and not some other mode.


Yes I was writing just about 6/4 CC, I know that they made also F and probably BBb tubas but they are not that "famous" like 6/4 and I never see here topics about other key York tubas so I don't think so they are that good as CC
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby the elephant » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:02 pm

besson900 wrote:
the elephant wrote:
I am assuming that you are asking specifically about the 6/4 CC tubas and not some other mode.


Yes I was writing just about 6/4 CC, I know that they made also F and probably BBb tubas but they are not that "famous" like 6/4 and I never see here topics about other key York tubas so I don't think so they are that good as CC


York made no F tubas that I am aware of. They made two basic Eb horns, one being small and one being the so-called "Monster Eb" that we all love to one degree or another. They made a few C tubas, but mostly they made BBb and Eb tubas that were played in bands of that time. Most of the big 6/4 Yorks started life as BBb tubas with three upright pistons.

You are confusing York tubas that have been cut to a new key by someone else. In THAT case there are many York tubas out there, including 6/4 horns, that were built in Bb or Eb that others cut to C or F decades later. Such tubas are not York products. They use York parts along with parts from other tubas (in most cases) to create a new tuba that sounds like the original but that use a much more modern valve section set up (four front-facing pistons and a rotary valve for 5th with a slide that lowers the pitch by a flat whole step).

Many of these horns are terrible because the person who cut them did something wrong. It is *very* difficult to successfully cut a horn to play in a new key. Some of them are very decent tubas, though, and usually net a very high price.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby besson900 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:12 pm

I saw here 3 or 4 months ago that was for sale F York tuba that why I was sure that they made some of them :)
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby the elephant » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:34 pm

besson900 wrote:I saw here 3 or 4 months ago that was for sale F York tuba that why I was sure that they made some of them :)


I am fairly certain that was the York small Eb. These can be cut a really well, but they are very small tubas. The monsters cut very poorly. I have never played one that didn’t have major problems.

Edited because phone fingers...
Last edited by the elephant on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby TheHatTuba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:10 pm

I'm guessing the York F was a Bob Rusk creation with Olds .656" valves. There are a few of them floating around.

In addition to the two Eb's Wade mentioned, they also made a tall/small model. 15" bell, but noticeably longer than the short one. I've only seen a couple.

I sold a factory York 696(?) CC a couple years back. It had a 22" fixed recording bell and front action. Really wish I could have kept that.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby pjv » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:45 pm

In defensie of the Monke tuba (if it’s the one I had a chance to play) then it’s a brilliant instrument.
I’ve never played one of the York’s. Fortunately this instrument can’t stand on it’s own.
I’ve played one of Monke’s “York”’s and it played as easy and as smooth as cutting butter.

It’s entirely hand made (from a small shop in Cologne) so I’m assuming that this is the reason for the price.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby YORK-aholic » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:17 pm

TheHatTuba wrote:In addition to the two Eb's Wade mentioned, they also made a tall/small model. 15" bell, but noticeably longer than the short one. I've only seen a couple.


As far as I've been able to tell (I own one of each (tall 32" and short 28" Ebs with 15" bells and 3 top action valves)), the 32" tall/long bell horns are the older low pitch instruments before "standard pitch". Obviously the bells are taller, the bottom bows look to be basically the same, but the top bow goes up higher on the tall/long Eb.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby Oldschooltuba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:31 pm

york.jpg
york.jpg (85.05 KiB) Viewed 1509 times
Here a pic of two York CC tubas.

The one on the list is a Rusk cut and belongs to me. I love it. The one on the right belongs to a close friend. He as two 4/4 size original York CC tubas. They too are great playing horns. It is my understanding that York made about 12 CC tubas. So with these two and the CSO horns, that leave 8 others.
Last edited by Oldschooltuba on Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby YORK-aholic » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:32 am

Oldschooltuba wrote:Here a pic of two York CC tubas.
OK...how do I make the pics small enough to fit.


The easiest way is that you send the two tubas to me. I will take a picture of them and post it for you. :tuba:
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby Oldschooltuba » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:47 am

Well I must say.... It's an idea.
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby Oldschooltuba » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:04 pm

PICS added above
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186CC 5U (gone)
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Meinl Weston F Model 45 (Gone)
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York 6/4 CC (yes a real York BAT)
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Re: How many "orginal" York CC tubas we have now? ;)

Postby besson900 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:42 am

OMG what an beautiful combo with those 2 tubas :tuba:
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