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Maybe not what you are asking: I don't think this would be the make or break decision for me about whether or not to place an order... but if I were already ordering a new 188, I would take them up on this option. Then again, very little convincing would be needed to get me to place an order for a new 188. This would just be a bonus.

Oh, and can the bell come with the old-style, wider kranz? I doubt it actually does anything different, just thought it looked cooler.

(Should have never sold my old 188!)

I'm pretty sure they already do. I remember a few new horns at their show room had "vintage" on the bell. Thinner metal and the older style small bell flare. I've never seen them advertised but I have seen the actual tubas.

No. I already have one modified to suit, complete with the desireable smaller diameter leadpipe. See my "Bessophone" thread.

Oh, you mean a Cerveny

OK, my Cerveny remark was an attempt at humor.

And now the serious reaction.
I don't play CC anymore (for reasons not important here) so 188 is out.

I've owned a 60's and a 70's CC 186 and both had the same intonation issues on the 5th partial D & C#=slide pulling. I am assuming that the 163's you've played were the same (correct?)

In my life ease in intonation gets the first priority, then I start looking at the rest of the horn.
So I answered "no".

I responded with 'yes'. However... I would like to qualify that by adding that I would only be interested in a good used one. NOT retail.

As I mentioned in the "Tuba review. Visit to FMB in Gütersloh" link, the Hagen's responded well on all fronts. I've noticed the same with my 1291 and with 91's I've tried. Easy playing, lots of sound for what you put in, awesome valves.
And as a Bobo student I honed my craft on a 186 (albeit with the afore mentioned intonation issues).

Particularly the Hagen's surprised me because they are heavy horns but play real, just easy like lightweight horns. Strange really.
So Miraphone has already got my attention. Several times.

I'm a fan of Alexander because of their light metal horns. Cerveny has also caught my attention because they switched over to producing higher quality lightweight. Still not as consistent as others manufacturers but nevertheless; smooth, quick and quiet valves on light playing in-tune tuba's.

So I'm changing my vote to "yeah" as long as in-tune is part of the deal, haha. I haven't found a purpose for heavy weight tubas (eh, isn't it heavy enough already??). Keeping up with our colleagues with the smaller brass means reducing obstacles.

Mediocre valves=obstacle
Working your butt off to push the air through a tuba (no matter how gorgeous the sound)=obstacle
Intonation distractions=obstacle
(not to mention noisy valves=OBSTACLE)

You know what I like about my 36K? Easy blowing. And thats what I like about my 163 Alex and all of the others tubas I mentioned above.So if Miraphone were to get (back) into the lightweight business I'd stand in line for it.

And honestly, is there another "state-of-the-art" tuba shop out there? Some top quality "wannabees", a lot of "has-beens" and some mighty fine small shops who are doing their best to shine all fronts, but only Miraphone is out there with;
bam! consistant intonation
bam! grand prix valves
bam! new designs
bam! consistant quality

'nuff said

I’d buy one...

Thanks for the kind words Joe! Touché on the too many tubas for me thing. But have been working on it... I must admit have been wondering what my current section would think about a 188 both next to it, and out in the hall

If anyone has an old 188 they want to sell...

I shouldn't have sold my old 188 either... Not sure if it was the lighter metal or not, but it was from the mid 80s, and had the old style (thicker) garland. A very sweet tuba! Oh well, what's done is done...

I don't know........The current 187/188 are pretty nice tubas. I don't know if I'd blindly say "yes", although if it was "worth it", I would.

I don't think the low register backs up like it used to either, based on the ones that I tried somewhat recently.

I would not buy a brand new Miraphone, much less one that costs an extra $1000. My entire Sonora cost only a couple hundred dollars more than the proposed "upgrade" by itself, and the numerous dents and imperfections in the metal assures me that I already have a thin brass handmade tuba.

No, but maybe a short bell 184?

I voted yes - as I have a 1960 186 CC 5U, I is a wonderful tuba. But I thought mine was more desirable because of the original larger lead pipe! I keep reading "complete with the desireable smaller diameter leadpipe"

This horn is truly a do all and the "point and shoot" label fits it well. I just had the horn out last night along side my newly acquired "valve wonder tuba".

If I was looking and in the market or recommending a horn to a student and one of these thin wall vintage style horns was available it would certainly be recommended.

Sadly, with the flood of dozens of new budget pipes of every color and flavor - most students move toward/ feel they deserve the hot new tuba of the day. I have had families ask for an opinion one week and when I see them the next week they excitedly tell me they went on and ordered the (*&^%$. (never my recomnedation)

Every tubist should have "at some time" during his playing days - one good 6/4 instrument and one vintage miraphone.

Tim Jackson

1960 Miraphone CC 5U (has the BBb crook)
1980 Walter Nirschl CC 4/4
1920s York front action BBb 6/4
1950s Holton Silver Sousaphone
Pullmann Bass 3/4 (my dream bass)
1980 Fender Jazz Bass
Vintage Eden Bass Amp
1960 Ampeg B-18 Bass Amp
2 1940 era 2B King Liberty Silver Trombones
Reynolds vintage Bass Trombone