Mr. Olka, so which wins?

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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Wyvern »

Ken Crawford wrote:I think a lightweight handmade model would do wonders for the execution of this instrument.
That is on its way, but will obviously be in a higher price bracket. We are giving people options here and they can buy what best suits their budget and playing requirements.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Ken Crawford »

Wyvern wrote:
Ken Crawford wrote:I think a lightweight handmade model would do wonders for the execution of this instrument.
That is on its way, but will obviously be in a higher price bracket. We are giving people options here and they can buy what best suits their budget and playing requirements.
It is what it is. I've spent quite a bit of time at the helm of a similar BBb. I thought of it like driving a cement truck. Projection was lack luster, but man it felt good under the bell.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by MikeMason »

Has he reviewed the Wessex Bb yet,or are you referring to the miraphone?
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by groth »

At the end of the day, the horn that wins here "should" be the one that blends the best in your individual situation (whatever that is). I think we or some of us are caught up on how this thing plays solo in a huge room or concert hall, but let's hear samples of it being filmed from the back row of the Orchestra Hall during a concert and then pass judgement. Sounded good under the bell is one thing, off the stage and rows back is another..we learn this very quickly with electric basses and monitors (at least we got a sound guy to help custom tailor what the audience hears).
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote:They were supplied with Holton 52 "Revelation" mouthpieces - which are huge (length & girth), and similar to the old Conn "Chief" and 1 mouthpieces - but those tubas resonate more with something smaller. Those mouthpieces were cut from a 4" long x 2" round cylinder of brass, and used every bit of both of those dimensions.
I've been using a Conn 1 on my Holton 109 lately, and it seems like the right combination for me. Interesting with other tubas, too, but particularly fine with the Holton. (I think the 109 - 105 with short action valves - is mainly congruent with the later 340 etc., at least as much as with other big BBb tubas.) I would hardly call it less resonant; maybe purer. The difference isn't really gigantic, after all it still seems to be up to me for the most part to make the sounds, not the mouthpiece, but I was reminded of your notion that the BAT came along as a brass substitute for a string bass. Pizzicato, I assume. It would again be mostly up to the player to get that sound, but I think the Conn 1 gives me a leg up on it, if I'm interested in pursuing it.

I guess this might be another example along the lines of, what's the point of a 6/4 tuba. You'd think, who would want such a big, expensive variation on the tuba, just to sound like any other tuba? So it seems foolish to judge it by the same standards as any other tuba. You'd have a different expectation for it, and you'd work towards that - perhaps even recognizing that an ordinary tuba might have advantages in some situations.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by dasanchezr »

I don't think Mr. Olka made those reviews to tell you which one of these tubas is the better one. He is doing enough by making this service for the tuba community by letting us know what he think, what you can probably expect and showing what he was capable to do with these instruments. He is putting his experience and his time so you can make a judgement by yourself. If you are buying without trying there is enough information in those videos for you to pick what you want.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by doublebuzzing »

dasanchezr wrote:I don't think Mr. Olka made those reviews to tell you which one of these tubas is the better one. He is doing enough by making this service for the tuba community by letting us know what he think, what you can probably expect and showing what he was capable to do with these instruments. He is putting his experience and his time so you can make a judgement by yourself. If you are buying without trying there is enough information in those videos for you to pick what you want.
I do agree it's a great service for him to provide. However, it is a little (only a little) frustrating that he hasn't said anything negative about the horns he has reviewed (except the Wessex BBb). I find it hard to believe that every horn that comes into his hands is damn near perfect in every respect. IF that is the case, I don't see why another Yorkbrunner, Nirschl, Yamayork, Baer 6/4, etc would ever sell again considering you can get just as good a horn at half the price or less. I do hope he will do a video telling us the difference between these Chinese 6/4s and the big money 6/4s I just mentioned.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Donn »

There may not be a big difference, that would show up in a review video.

I don't know if anyone does this any more, but back in the day, I'd read anecdotes like "went to [retail store], played a bunch of [tuba model]" - and never, in those anecdotes, did they all sound the same. I would venture to guess that every model of tuba that ever came out of a factory, is based on a prototype that sounded fairly good. One of the things you'd hope to get for your money, is a tuba that actually plays like that prototype. Another thing you'd hope to get, is one that will continue to play, trouble free, thanks to good quality materials and precise construction. What you get from a video review, doesn't cover the things that you would hope to get from paying for 1st world manufacture - there isn't any special 1st world sound.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by bone-a-phone »

One of the things you get from professional reviews is that everything is positive. There are a lot of reasons for that. First, he might want to do another Miraphone or Wessex or Cerveny review in the future, and if he posts a negative one now, he'll probably not get the chance to do that. Second, what's a negative for one person may be a positive for someone else. He might say "not very dark" with a detrimental meaning, when someone else hears "brilliant" and it's positive. Stuffy vs resistance. Open vs air hog. Heavy vs solid. Light vs doesn't project well. So when He says that one bell size has more core and the other has more presence, Wessex set him up to ride the fence by giving him two horns that to some extent isolate with bookends a parameter spectrum, and he's doing it brilliantly. He's actually giving you the info you need, without the biased opinion. To me, that's a great thing. He compared the sounds of the two big Wessex horns side by side over and over. So you should have been able to hear on whatever equipment you have that one was more focused and the other more diffused. He even said he would choose each of them in different situations, and spelled out the situations. For his style, he would choose the more diffuse instrument because it balances out his aggressive style. I think that's a perfect review, and great information to have. He told you not to pick an instrument that matches your way of playing, pick one that complements it. That has nothing to do with the instruments, it was just free wisdom. I imagine it applies to selecting other instruments as well. So there's not really one that's "better" in an absolute sense, just one that's better in a specific situation, which is why a lot of us have multiple instruments - we play in a lot of different situations.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Douglas »

bloke wrote: :arrow: Again, as Mr. Okla has run through roughly half of Chinese 6/4 piston tubas with a video camera running, someone might as well hand him off the other half... BMB (C and Bb) and ZO.
Where would one even get the ZO?
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by toobagrowl »

I'd be surprised if Mr. Olka replies to this thread. He is not obligated to, and prolly doesn't want to show any favortizm, but instead just demonstrate these tubas to give us an idea what they play/sound like. Of course he sounds fantastic on all of them, but you can hear some differences between them if you listen multiple times, back to back.

I've listened to the 6/4 Wessex clips several times and they all sound like great 6/4 York-o-phones. Not that I'm interested in any 6/4 tubas; mostly just curious in how they sound. I personally liked the 20" bell Wessex-York CC the best. The big BBb may be a little darker/richer, but I felt the big CC tubas had the better sound color. The overtones/harmonic content in the sound of the CC versus the BBb is pretty clear if heard multiple times on good headphones. I always listen to any music on my computer with good headphones anyway.
The 20" bell Wessex-York CC had the color of the 18" bell CC, but with a bit more warmth/mellowness. Larger bells always 'mellow/diffuse' the sound. I think the 18" bell CC would be good for pops concerts or if you want more 'zing' in the sound. The big BBb, IMO, would sound better in a large band or wind ensemble than an orchestra. That big, dark, 'chunkier' sound may sound somewhat 'tubby' (esp. being a 6/4 York-style BBb) in the orchestra blend, but be perfect for large band.
The real test is to actually hear/use it in the ensemble. Harder to guage such things on solo recordings in a large room without context of the ensemble. :!:
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Wyvern »

Stryk wrote:Logic tells me the $40k horn is much different than the $10k horn, but I would like to know how it is different.
Terry, Come and try the Wessex when we are exhibiting at ITEC in Florida May 10-12 and see for yourself
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by bort »

...because you will also have the $40k tuba there? :)
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by Wyvern »

bort wrote:...because you will also have the $40k tuba there? :)
I bet both they and Eastman will also be there. It is good if they are so people can compare
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by bisontuba »

Stryk wrote:Logic tells me the $40k horn is much different than the $10k horn, but I would like to know how it is different.
Hi-
Just hapened this past Saturday in Toronto at TOTES ( great event, great players & folks, and as always, wonderful city) ...the prototype BMB 2nd generation 6/4 CC and the YamaYork ( NOTE: NEVER complain about tuba prices here in the States..with the Canadian dollar, the YamaYork is $50,000 Canadian PLUS 13% H.S.T.)...
... and I won’t be having the prototype for long—-it will be with Dick Barth at SERTEC at Florida State May 10-12....
Happy Spring.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by bort »

bisontuba wrote:NOTE: NEVER complain about tuba prices here in the States..with the Canadian dollar, the YamaYork is $50,000 Canadian PLUS 13% G.S.T.)
Not with the exchange rate, though.

This morning, Google tells me:
$50,000 CAD + 13% tax = $43,239.45 USD

I'd bet that on average, $40,000 USD + sales tax (varies by location) would be really close to that. For me, it's about $43,100 USD.

(BTW, anyone else notice the new MW price list updates? Over $33k for a 6540/2 right now!)
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by bisontuba »

:wink: :|
bort wrote:
bisontuba wrote:NOTE: NEVER complain about tuba prices here in the States..with the Canadian dollar, the YamaYork is $50,000 Canadian PLUS 13% G.S.T.)
Not with the exchange rate, though.

This morning, Google tells me:
$50,000 CAD + 13% tax = $43,239.45 USD

I'd bet that on average, $40,000 USD + sales tax (varies by location) would be really close to that. For me, it's about $43,100 USD.

(BTW, anyone else notice the new MW price list updates? Over $33k for a 6540/2 right now!)

Bort-
It was Canadians themselves telling me the exchange conversion...MUCH different going from U.S. to Canada than Canada to U.S....I trust, since it is their money, to know what they are talking about (BTW, Yamaha Canada has 3 or 4 YamaYorks in their warehouse..)..
Mark

PS. I bought dinner in T.O. and was going to pay cash (U.S.)...I asked what their conversion rate was and they said equal...I used my debit card instead, and looking at my bank acc’t on line the next day, I see instead of $40 Canadian, I was charged $29.10 U.S......
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by bort »

bloke wrote:
bisontuba wrote:(BTW, Yamaha Canada has 3 or 4 YamaYorks in their warehouse..)..
Mark
They may (??) remain there for a bit.
New TubeNet thread title: How to unfreeze YamaYork valves and slides.
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by tmmcas1 »

bloke wrote:
bisontuba wrote:(BTW, Yamaha Canada has 3 or 4 YamaYorks in their warehouse..)..
Mark
They may (??) remain there for a bit.
Or not....
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Re: Mr. Olka, so which wins?

Post by PMeuph »

Watch out, soon Yamaha will sell Cryogenically frozen Yamayorks at a premium. :D :D


For the whole Canadians pay more argument. As someone who's made that argument here several times and many times in real life. The reality is that prices are only fair once in a while. (When the CAD is weak vis-a-vis the USD) As soon as they come close to par, the Canadian prices are not adjusted so it becomes cheaper to buy in the US. I would speculate that Yamaha Canada doesn't buy from Yamaha USA but rather from Yamaha Japan. That said, Yamaha USA will sell to any* Yamaha distributor in Canada (*Motorcycle shops, etc). So if a Canadian wanted a Yamaha tuba, site-unseen, they could wait til the USD drops and buy it from their local motorcycle/skidoo/jet-ski vendor....


The other aspect of the low-cost argument in the US, is that Americans have access to a lot more low cost products (in Hardware stores, grocery stores, Walmart, etc). When I cross the border, I sometime stop at places like Walmart where I can buy $2 cans of brake cleaner (As opposed to $7 here) and a whole bunch of little like that. If you compare princess auto to harbor freight, it's not the big items that vary so much in price, it's the little ones.
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/ ... -p2910348e" target="_blank" target="_blank
https://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-ba ... 96210.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

I speculate this has to do with the larger market and the fact that stores can sell more since areas are more densely populated. And also, not taking into account the exchange(as it fluctuates) minimum wages are lower in the US.


PS. 13% is HST(in Ontario) not GST. Taxes vary from 5% to 15% depending on the province. So someone buying a Yamayork should do it in Alberta, where they would save $5k by doing so.
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