Advice for high C

[carsonjon211]

Lately when I have been practicing my range, I have a lot of trouble controlling the C above the staff. My range above it and below is pretty good just the one note is difficult for me. I have a high embouchure so I know it is easy to put pressure on my upper lip. Any advice for this? Thanks!

I play a Miraphone 186 BBb and use a PT 88 mouthpiece.

[Ken Herrick]

...no valves down...??

That works. Play a scale starting on Ab and going up an octave using 1, the start on A using 2 and go up, then Bb open and go up. Good ear and muscle training.

Octave interval practice is also helpful.

Don't let yourself get psyched out over one pitch.

Keep the embouchure well lubricated..........a good Islay single malt whiskey works wonders.

[swillafew]

That part of the range can be helped by doing your scales starting on the high note and descending (after your chops are warm). The keys of B and C take a lot more patience than Bb at first. If I lack daily attention to this it's the first thing to go.

[happyroman]

Another thing to consider is that "high" c is not really a high note. It is really at the upper part of middle range.

In the 1950s, Arnold Jacobs did a lot of studies with the other brass players in the CSO, including himself, Farkas, Lambert, and Herseth. One experiment was to measure the air pressure in the oral cavity when they played their instruments. Two important points were discovered during these experiments. First, when the player went up an octave, the pressure in the oral cavity doubled. Second, when the players were playing the same enharmonic note, the pressure in the oral cavity was the same, regardless of the instrument.

Two lessons can be taken from this. First, it is important not to play with too much back pressure in the low register, because this doubling effect still takes place. For example, if we would normally be using 3 oz of air pressure for a low c, it becomes 6 oz for a middle c and 12 oz for a high c. If we start with 6 oz for the low c, it doubles to 12 oz for middle c and 24 oz for the high c. The result is we are working much harder than necessary to play the higher notes.

Second, if the air pressure for our high c is the same as a trumpet low c, Mr. Jacobs would ask us why should we be working hard when the trumpet players are goofing off?

This does not really apply to your question about high c compared to notes just above or below it, but is good to be aware of.

The instrument simply amplifies the vibration you are buzzing into the mouthpiece. If it sounds bad, one likely cause is that the not being buzzed is not at the exact frequency that will resonate the best, given the length of the tube. This is why the tone deteriorates when we have to "lip" a note in tune. This is also a reason why the alternate fingerings may sound better. They change the length of the tube slightly so that the vibration can resonate better. Another possible solution may be to push or pull the first valve slide to accomplish the same thing.

Finally,it may be as simple as not buzzing the note in tune (on center) and therefore, the pitch is not being resonated as well as it would if it were on center. This is where mouthpiece buzzing can be very beneficial. If the note is slightly out of tune, you hear it immediately and can adjust until it is in tune, keeping you in control. If you are slightly off, the harmonic series of the instrument will lock you in to the closest pitch, but will likely sound bad because the lips are not vibrating at the frequency that has the most resonance for the tube length, keeping the instrument more in control.

[Mark]

I have a lot of trouble controlling the C above the staff. My range above it and below is pretty good ...

How high above middle C is good?

[carsonjon211]

I have a lot of trouble controlling the C above the staff. My range above it and below is pretty good ...

How high above middle C is good?

I've been doing lip slurs to a F above the staff just fine

[carsonjon211]

Finally,it may be as simple as not buzzing the note in tune (on center) and therefore, the pitch is not being resonated as well as it would if it were on center. This is where mouthpiece buzzing can be very beneficial. If the note is slightly out of tune, you hear it immediately and can adjust until it is in tune, keeping you in control. If you are slightly off, the harmonic series of the instrument will lock you in to the closest pitch, but will likely sound bad because the lips are not vibrating at the frequency that has the most resonance for the tube length, keeping the instrument more in control.

Thanks! Yeah a lot of it I think has to do with hearing the pitch plus I am probably working too hard to reach the note. I'll be sure to apply this when I practice later today.

[MEWienand]

I use Fourth valve only and it pops out every time.
Hope that helps
Mark

[JasonWall]

Another thing to consider is that "high" c is not really a high note. It is really at the upper part of middle range.

In the 1950s, Arnold Jacobs did a lot of studies with the other brass players in the CSO, including himself, Farkas, Lambert, and Herseth. One experiment was to measure the air pressure in the oral cavity when they played their instruments. Two important points were discovered during these experiments. First, when the player went up an octave, the pressure in the oral cavity doubled. Second, when the players were playing the same enharmonic note, the pressure in the oral cavity was the same, regardless of the instrument.

Two lessons can be taken from this. First, it is important not to play with too much back pressure in the low register, because this doubling effect still takes place. For example, if we would normally be using 3 oz of air pressure for a low c, it becomes 6 oz for a middle c and 12 oz for a high c. If we start with 6 oz for the low c, it doubles to 12 oz for middle c and 24 oz for the high c. The result is we are working much harder than necessary to play the higher notes.

Second, if the air pressure for our high c is the same as a trumpet low c, Mr. Jacobs would ask us why should we be working hard when the trumpet players are goofing off?

This does not really apply to your question about high c compared to notes just above or below it, but is good to be aware of.

The instrument simply amplifies the vibration you are buzzing into the mouthpiece. If it sounds bad, one likely cause is that the not being buzzed is not at the exact frequency that will resonate the best, given the length of the tube. This is why the tone deteriorates when we have to "lip" a note in tune. This is also a reason why the alternate fingerings may sound better. They change the length of the tube slightly so that the vibration can resonate better. Another possible solution may be to push or pull the first valve slide to accomplish the same thing.

Finally,it may be as simple as not buzzing the note in tune (on center) and therefore, the pitch is not being resonated as well as it would if it were on center. This is where mouthpiece buzzing can be very beneficial. If the note is slightly out of tune, you hear it immediately and can adjust until it is in tune, keeping you in control. If you are slightly off, the harmonic series of the instrument will lock you in to the closest pitch, but will likely sound bad because the lips are not vibrating at the frequency that has the most resonance for the tube length, keeping the instrument more in control.

Love this response very much. Nice Insight and very much well agree

[carsonjon211]

...no valves down...??

I usually do 1st valve or open. Lately I have been hitting it most of the time with first but most in tune open. The other day I had a better time hitting the note but it is still a challenge to hit the center of the pitch.