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Hey everyone-

My dad is a h.s. band director at a strong high school in upstate new york. He asked me for recommendations on BBb tubas to buy the other day and I was sorta stumped. Being a CC player i tend to not look into the BB's too much. Currently he has the Yamaha 321's and is looking to upgrade. I'd like to steer him away from the rotor valve horns mostly out of personal preference but also my belief that pistons hold up better in school (abusive) settings. The two models I've sort of recommended thus far are the new king BBb tuba and the miraphone 1291 in BBb. Any other recommendations would be really useful. Thanks!
-Christian Carichner

TTkatz wrote:Hey everyone-

My dad is a h.s. band director at a strong high school in upstate new york. He asked me for recommendations on BBb tubas to buy the other day and I was sorta stumped. Being a CC player i tend to not look into the BB's too much. Currently he has the Yamaha 321's and is looking to upgrade. I'd like to steer him away from the rotor valve horns mostly out of personal preference but also my belief that pistons hold up better in school (abusive) settings. The two models I've sort of recommended thus far are the new king BBb tuba and the miraphone 1291 in BBb. Any other recommendations would be really useful. Thanks!
-Christian Carichner

I think the King 2341 is the best recommendation. The Miraphone 1291 is quite expensive for that application and also a little more demanding in terms of air supply.

Another worthy piston BBb tuba that is physically better made than the King but cheaper than the Miraphone is the VMI 3301. My wife's uncle bought one recently and it's a very nice instrument. I prefer the King, but recognize that Conn-Selmer cuts corners in production to meet the price point. They'll need to be tweaked by a good shop, and culled to prevent getting a bad one.

Some high-end technicians agree with you on the durability of front pistons compared to rotors, but I still like the playability of the Miraphone 186 for high-school kids.

Rick "no better than the good HS players these days" Denney

I agree with Rick. A Mirafone 186 can take a phenomenal amount of abuse and still keep playing. The King is a great bet, but I worry about their overall durability. I have seen schools have great success with the Jupiter 521(is that the right designation, .720 bore nice valve set that is removable, and they are very reasonable). Good Luck.

Chuck

Hi Christian, Jenna said she had a great time visiting you guys in Va. this past week. My vote goes to the King 2341. It's an excellent 4/4 size tuba, reasonably priced, with almost a CC quality to it's sound - clear and focused. For a little less money, the Jupiter 582 is a nice piston valve, 4/4 size tuba too. My son, Danny, plays on one and he got a 100 on his All-State solo this past Spring with it. I agree that one should stay away from rotary valve tubas for use in school music programs. Good luck in AZ.

MW25 - 2 good players with 25s is already too much for a 60 person band

My high school uses Yamahas (I forget the model #): 4/4 size, $ rotors, .812 bore. They look similar to the MW 25, and play great. Before I bought my tuba, people at auditions would ask me if the tuba I was playing was a MW or Miraphone. They were almost always stunned that I was playing a Yamaha. You should also look at the Tuba Exchange's St. Petersburgs. They are great tubas for dirt cheap prices. 4/4 compact size, so smaller kids can hold them, huge bore. You can find out all you need to know about these tubas by calling Vince @ TE. He is crazy about them.

Avoid:

Yamaha 641
Miraphone 191
St. Pete


Consider:
King 2341
Miraphone 186


I say avoid the St. Pete because, well, in a normal school setting it would need to be replaced/overhauled in about 2 years.
The Yamaha 641 and Miraphone 191 are love em/hate em type horns, which could be pretty discouraging if all the players ended up in the hate em category.

The King 2341 is a good piston BBb horn, that should be easy to repair if the need arises.

The Miraphone 186, despite the rotary valves, is the best choice. It's hard to make one of these sound bad, and the new ones look fantastic. They're built like tanks, as well.

A 186 served me quite well through high school.

THE TUBA wrote:St. Petersburgs... You can find out all you need to know about these tubas by calling Vince @ TE. He is crazy about them.

From what I've ever heard, this is accidental truth if I've ever seen it!!


Joe Baker, who ain't sayin' NOTHIN' else!!

I agree that the King 2341 is probably the best tuba for the price for this application, but I don't know that it is a better choice than the Yamaha 321's that he already has. Although I would agree that piston valves are a little better than rotary valves in a school situation, I have been convinced that top action piston valves are best for this use. Having the valve stems in the middle of all that metal protects them from lots of accidental damage. If his Yamahas need work he would be better off having them serviced than buying something different.

If he really wants something else, I would suggest the King 2341 or Jupiter 582. The VMI 3301 is a good horn, but I don't like it better than the King, at least if you get a good King, and it will be a little more expensive.

Here's another vote for the King 2341. It's easy to play and handle (most any HS student can hold the instrument without a problem) and it projects a good sound from a good player. Durability seems to be fine unless completely abused. (No horn can withstand intentional abuse....if you want to see a dent on the side of an aircraft carrier, you can eventually make one!)

The older Miraphone 186 models were special for me when I was in HS and still find them to be some of the finest BBb's made. My thoughts would be to consider any horn's playing potential first, then address concerns such as durability. A durable horn that plays so so (such as the Yamaha 321, in my opinion) doesn't help a band too much. You are just assured that the band will own a mediocre horn for a long time. I would look to find a very good playing horn that is not too sensitive and then look into how to keep it in shape. Maintainence education and pride in their instruments needs to be a part of every student musician's make up.

Good luck in finding what you need.

Mark

Mark wrote: {(No horn can withstand intentional abuse....if you want to see a dent on the side of an aircraft carrier, you can eventually make one!)

The older Miraphone 186 models were special for me when I was in HS and still find them to be some of the finest BBb's made. My thoughts would be to consider any horn's playing potential first, then address concerns such as durability. A durable horn that plays so so (such as the Yamaha 321, in my opinion) doesn't help a band too much. You are just assured that the band will own a mediocre horn for a long time. I would look to find a very good playing horn that is not too sensitive and then look into how to keep it in shape. Maintainence education and pride in their instruments needs to be a part of every student musician's make up }


Mark, I think that you have hit the nail on the head. The opportunity to be able to play on a quality horn should be earned and not something that should be taken lightly. I would say keep the old used horns, consider an economy overhaul on them and keep them in playing condition for lesser players. Have 1 or 2 high end horns,(MW-25, Mirafone 186), that can be purchased used in pretty good condition for ~$2500. Once a student earns the privilege to play one of the top horns, they will appreciate it and it should be able to last for years. In these times of very tight school budjets, it is just crazy to accept the idea that school horns will be abused without consequences.
Steve

TubaSteve wrote:Mark wrote:that can be purchased used in pretty good condition for ~$2500.

Unfortunatly, most schools are required to only buy new instruments. But also, I believe that schools can usually get a deal on the instruments they buy.