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I seem to notice fewer and fewer axial flow/Thayer valves among pro players. Anyone else notice this? Theories?

Trombone is my primary instrument and I'm guessing that the hype that Thayers had is diminishing and many players are finding that they blow too open for them, or they don't like the acoustical impact (or lack thereof) of a Thayer.

I personally like a plain rotor F-valve, especially the older style that aren't oversized by much, if at all.

I think there are just more options in the market now, so Thayer has competition from other valves that are also more open than old-style rotors.

I have an Edwards tenor with a Thayer that I bought second hand around 1998, when it was about 7-8 years old and had clearly had some heavy use in that time, but it’s still in great shape. I’ve had a little work done on the Bach 42 slide from that horn (Edwards didn’t make their own slides early on, so you could get them with either a Bach or a Conn slide receiver), but I don’t think I’ve had anything done to the bell and valve sections.

I also have a Rath R9 bass with double Hagmann valves.

The Thayer and the Hagmanns are both pretty open and well balanced on both sides, with the Thayer being a little better in that regard, and both are fairly light in weight. Maintenance on the Hagmann valves is a little more fiddly, due to the unusually long spindle in that design. The Thayer has a longer throw. If I had to pick one style of valve, I’d go with the Thayer, but overall the Rath is a fantastic sounding and playing horn, and I wouldn’t want to change anything about it.

I have a Shires w/ a TrueBore valve.
Does the job. I liked it more than the traditional valve on the set-up I have. It's quick, low(no) maintenance, and the linkage is well placed and sturdy.

I agree that the reason for the decline of the thayer is the combination of its own shortcomings and the availability of other great valves like the Rotax, Hagman, Trubore, Duobore, Kanstul CR, the Conn Lindberg, as well as all the thayer copies. The newest Shires valve is the Duobore (or Dual Bore, not sure which). Its actually smaller than most modern rotors. Some players find some value in a little resistance. Especially tenor players.

I have owned a few horns with Thayer valves over the years but I prefer rotors. Thayers have a long throw and some I have had in the past stick. I have always felt Thayers are great when honking out a loud low note, but they were never my cup of tea when playing passages that required dexterity or went in and out of the valve register.

I like the lesser resistance of the Thayers on my Edwards. I got back dexterity by using the Gb valve much more than the F.

MikeMason wrote:I seem to notice fewer and fewer axial flow/Thayer valves among pro players. Anyone else notice this? Theories?

Definitely a shift in sound concepts in orchestral circles.

Thayer valves, apart from their open-blowing nature, bring a certain sound quality to any instrument. Lots of fundamental, a certain "width" and some articulation tendencies.

The pendulum seems to be swinging back the other way a little. Players are rediscovering the focus and clarity that can come with a well designed rotary valve. A few big name orchestral players have moved to rotary horns of their own design, thus others are starting to sit up an pay attention. I don't think the thayer is going anywhere in a hurry, though.

bloke wrote:leaky/sticky/degenerative...??

All possibilities (depending on who made it and in which era), but one in good order, well maintained, is still a viable choice for a trombonist who is after a particular sound/feel. I don't disagree that the valve is, by design, inherently leaky and prone to wear if poorly maintained, but I think these qualities are exaggerated by players who haven't really spent much time playing them. Or by those unwilling to do basic maintenance...

Andrew