Harmonics, Big mouthpeices, Intonation

[Patrase]

Hi

Just want to put some thoughts down and hear from others as to whether the points make sense or not.p

Recently a conductor mentioned something along the line of 'clarinets have trouble tuning because their overtones are stronger.'

So based on that statement if a tuba could be played with more fundamental relative to the other harmonics it would be easier to tune.

My understanding is that bigger mouthpieces have less harmonics present. So conversely smaller mp's have more overtures relative to the fundamental.

In some old tubenet threads it was mentioned that pro players don't use the big mp's like a pt88 and 50 and often use slightly smaller mp's. But the 50 and 88 are very popular mp's and a lot of 'amateurs' seem to use them.

So I assume that a pro player can deal with intonation more appropriately when dealing with more harmonics in their sound.

An amateur player probably has a less developed ear.

So is part of the attraction of a big mouthpeice, particularly from an amateurs point of view, an easier time dealing with intonation? And is it a subconscious thing?

[swillafew]

Picking a mouthpiece is somewhat like picking shoes: you have to be fitting it to yourself, and also to the horn. I had the luxury to try many of them at Custom Music when I bought a new horn there. I held fast to one teacher's advice, and picked the one where I thought the intonation was best. Good intonation makes all the nuances about harmonics, etc, a much better proposition.

My last purchase of a horn was sight unseen. I asked a pro player what mouthpiece he thought would work best. The very model he said was included in the bag when the horn showed up. It has been a good result.

[Donn]

Recently a conductor mentioned something along the line of 'clarinets have trouble tuning because their overtones are stronger.'

Note that clarinets have an unusual harmonic spectrum, where the even partials are suppressed. (That's related to their ability to produce relatively low notes, for their size - a clarinet can play near as low as an alto sax.) Most other instruments don't have that issue, and their 2nd and 4th partials come through loud and clear - the octaves above the fundamental. Clarinets don't really have trouble tuning, but -

So based on that statement if a tuba could be played with more fundamental relative to the other harmonics it would be easier to tune.

The problem here is that the tuba's somewhat unusual problem is that you can't hear the fundamental. Well, not very well, especially low in the range. It isn't a problem with human hearing, so much, as just that there apparently isn't much coming out, as measured by acoustic spectrum analyzers. But it's also a problem with human hearing, and the impression we have that we're hearing it is more of an illusion than a physical reality. For both reasons, the clarinet's fundamental (1st partial) is much more audible and useful than the tuba's, for tuning.

My understanding is that bigger mouthpieces have less harmonics present. So conversely smaller mp's have more overtures relative to the fundamental.

I would be interested to see any information that supports that idea. I think it's wrong, but what do I know?

So is part of the attraction of a big mouthpeice, particularly from an amateurs point of view, an easier time dealing with intonation? And is it a subconscious thing?

No. A good mouthpiece fits the player's face, and their concept of tone and so forth. Some people think that tubas with unusually difficult intonation may respond better to some mouthpieces than others; others are not so sure, but I am pretty sure there's no general rule.