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American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:57 pm
by Levaix
Disclaimer: I've done my minimum due diligence searching both TubeNet's search function as well as Google, and I'm not finding a good answer, sooooooo...

I just picked up a used (and discontinued) mouthpiece for my Eb, and of course it's the wrong shank size so it bottoms out in the receiver. If I wrap a piece of paper around the shank it fits okay and it works REALLY well; arguably better than my current mouthpiece or anything else I've demo'd on this horn.

Obviously a piece of paper isn't an ideal solution going forward. What have the rest of you done in this kind of circumstance? Is there a particular type of tape that would work well without damaging the mouthpiece or coming loose inside my horn? I do see Wessex had an American->Euro shank adapter at one point but it looks to be discontinued as I can't find it on the website.

What says the TNFJ?

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:59 pm
by bloke
- Replace the receiver.
~~~~~~~~ or ~~~~~~~~~
- Send the mouthpiece to New Jersey to have it "re-shanked".

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:45 pm
by Levaix
bloke wrote:- Replace the receiver.
~~~~~~~~ or ~~~~~~~~~
- Send the mouthpiece to New Jersey to have it "re-shanked".

That may be slightly too permanent for my taste. :lol:

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:45 pm
by Ken Crawford
Between the purchase of this mouthpiece and either alerting it or your horn, it sounds like you may have a mouthpiece budget of $2-300. Rather than making alterations, which may alter your playing results, take that budget and find another mouthpiece that works well and fits.

PS... Medical tape works better than paper, in the meantime.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:46 pm
by bloke
Levaix wrote:
bloke wrote:- Replace the receiver.
~~~~~~~~ or ~~~~~~~~~
- Send the mouthpiece to New Jersey to have it "re-shanked".

That may be slightly too permanent for my taste. :lol:


...so you're posting - why?
You've already discovered paper. :D

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:20 pm
by Levaix
I get what you guys are saying and I appreciate the input, but it's a vintage tuba (1918 Chicago Holton Eb) in great condition, and the mouthpiece (Dillon F1B) is likewise discontinued and in great condition.

Ken, I guess just to give a little more context, it's not a tuba I get the chance to play in an ensemble very frequently, and I've auditioned a half dozen different mouthpieces on it already. Was hoping for a "mostly fine" solution, so I will definitely try your tip with the medical tape!

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:24 pm
by pauvog1
You can have the shank modified, have the receiver replaced, or find another mp with the correct size shank...

In the mean time, maybe try plumbers tape on the shank for something slightly more permanent than paper.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:37 am
by Worth
pauvog1 wrote:In the mean time, maybe try plumbers tape on the shank for something slightly more permanent than paper.


+1 for teflon i.e. Plumber's Tape

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:45 am
by Three Valves
Wessex sold an aluminum adapter (the only one I found anywhere) but it is no longer listed on their web site.

Not even as out of stock!!

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:48 am
by timothy42b
I use Teflon tape on one mouthpiece. I had the shank turned down to fit one of those intermediate leadpipes, and I'm using it on a large. Teflon lets you adjust it very precisely, lasts a long time, and costs less than a dollar a roll.

I also use the tape on household plumbing repairs way more frequently than I want, and I've recently learned a lot of people use it in lieu of anti-seize compound for a variety of applications, including some I would never have thought of, like shotgun choke tubes. I think some people assemble those modular mouthpieces that way. I don't own any so I haven't tried.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:57 am
by bloke
As is seen with aluminum trumpet valve stems (which routinely end up both frozen and rotten), aluminum does not "play nice" around brass and lime.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:09 am
by cjk
So what kind of mouthpiece is it?

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:19 am
by Stryk
In my Alexander, I cut the end off of a King sousaphone bit and use it as an adapter. It has worked perfectly for 5 years now.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:46 pm
by Levaix
Thanks all for the tips! Tried out medical tape last night and it worked okay. I removed all the residue before putting the horn away. I'll give teflon tape a try soon, I imagine that might be a bit more hygienic. I've also gotten in touch with Wessex to see if they have any more adapters lying around.

As mentioned, the mouthpiece is a Dillon F1B. My Holton Eb is a beast of a frankenhorn so it's been interesting finding the right mouthpiece. Anything too big, the intonation and projection both suffer; too small, and the sound doesn't resonate. Started with the Imperial blokepiece, which worked okay. Was looking for a Laskey 28F to try something different but it's nearly impossible to find. A few months ago I caved and ordered a few variants of the same design my instructor was using in his big F: a PT 65, RT 64, and Canadian Brass MB 64. I ended up keeping the MB 64 and IMO it's an overlooked mouthpiece. Bigger sound than the standard 64 and more character than the 65. But this Dillon piece is giving me a similar sound with more clarity overall and improved intonation in the low range. Someone on Facebook was selling it and I picked it up on a whim, seems to be an awesome match for this horn though.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:57 am
by cjk
Dillon Music used to sell a brass American to Euro shank adapter. Maybe they still do

I don't remember if that mouthpiece was offered in euro shank.

The Dillon F1 and F2b mouthpieces which I previously owned had normal American shanks iirc. I don't know if they were offered in a larger shank size.

I find it strange that a Holton Eb has anything but an American or the smaller Eb size receiver.

I suggest you contact Matt Walters at Dillon music to see if they have any adapters and also find out if that mouthpiece was offered in a euro shank. If it was, you could post a "want to buy" thread.

You could always replace the receiver with one of those adjustable gap receivers.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 8:22 pm
by MikeW
Some years ago there was a discussion on here, can't find it right now...
The solution that someone came up with was to build up the shank with the same thin cork material used for re-corking woodwind instruments.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:24 am
by timothy42b
Draw the adapter you want, with dimensions as accurate as you can get. Measure your shank, compare that to what you would calculate.

(Is either or both a Morse taper? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3779551/)

Then 3D print it at your local library. Most have a makerspace now. You'll have to wait in line with children printing Pokemons maybe. Maybe print a couple extra, ones a little larger you might want to sand down. It's just PLA plastic.

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:51 am
by timothy42b
Found a table with standard tapers:

https://littlemachineshop.com/Reference/Tapers.php

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:37 am
by tokuno
I use aluminum tape.
It holds up well; over a year for the last piece (just replaced it last month).

Re: American shank mpc in Euro shank tuba solutions?

PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:09 pm
by bloke
Notice that the Jarno taper is - in reality - just one taper broken up into segments.