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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby pjv » Sun May 06, 2018 9:06 am

Not to mention the damage mid 20thC music could have on your instrument; plopping mpc's, banging on your valves, scrapping the bell across the floor, ticking with a ring on the instrument, slapping your hand on the bell, etc.
Glad we made it to the 21stC were we only have to play massively loud low notes at every single climax.
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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby bloke » Sun May 06, 2018 9:26 am

pjv wrote:Not to mention the damage mid 20thC music could have on your instrument; plopping mpc's, banging on your valves, scrapping the bell across the floor, ticking with a ring on the instrument, slapping your hand on the bell, etc.
Glad we made it to the 21stC were we only have to play massively loud low notes at every single climax.


Just give me at least thirty seconds to insert/remove the tuba mute.
Since - unlike many juveniles - I don't tend to knock-over (throw...??) tubas, most of the scratches inside my bells are the results of unreasonably quick mute changes. ...and as far as "banging on the valves" is concerned, a with properly-adjusted instrument (admittedly, rare) that shouldn't make any noise.
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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby imperialbari » Sun May 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Never came across a Conn VocaBell instrument, so I have never seen a bell edge without some sort of rounded reinforcement.

As for damages: In a school context they may be hard to avoid. But I have a hard time accepting damage that has been done intentionally.

I once saw a photo of a King BBb tuba owned by a US public school. The inner top bow was badly dented. Whereas the outer bow was intact. That damage could not have come from the tuba being toppled over. That inner top bow had been kicked with a hard boot.

With that attitude among students the choice of tuba style doesn’t really matter. My preferred solution to instrument care is about letting students buy their own instruments. (And then I also prefer piston tubas).

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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby bloke » Sun May 06, 2018 3:18 pm

imperialbari wrote:Never came across a Conn VocaBell instrument, so I have never seen a bell edge without some sort of rounded reinforcement.

As for damages: In a school context they may be hard to avoid. But I have a hard time accepting damage that has been done intentionally.

I once saw a photo of a King BBb tuba owned by a US public school. The inner top bow was badly dented. Whereas the outer bow was intact. That damage could not have come from the tuba being toppled over. That inner top bow had been kicked with a hard boot.

With that attitude among students the choice of tuba style doesn’t really matter. My preferred solution to instrument care is about letting students buy their own instruments. (And then I also prefer piston tubas).

Klaus


' nothing that stuff [which - mis-classified, actually - is banned from discussion here] wouldn't solve in fairly short order.

bloke "In earlier times, American students actually wore out publicly-owned brass instruments (pistons/rotors/etc.), and did not tear them up.
To a local university's students' credit (as well as their director's), I'm seeing very little damage this year to their nineteen sousaphones, and mostly just solder joint failure - and on a make not known for particularly good solder joints."
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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby imperialbari » Sun May 06, 2018 5:13 pm

If I have touched banned topics, I am still unaware of which part of my post breaks any rule. I have not asked for any funding, nor hawked commercial stuff. Not even discussed politics. But as a retired teacher I still happen to have opinions on matters related to education.

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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby bloke » Sun May 06, 2018 6:20 pm

Neither of us have, but some view "bluntly pointing out some of the causes of societal breakdown" (one of the symptoms of which would certainly be "widespread reckless mishandling of expensive publicly-owned equipment") as being "political", so I'm not going to discuss those causes, because discussing those causes inevitably leads back to discussing the causes of those causes.
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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby ken k » Sun May 06, 2018 10:00 pm

bloke wrote:ok... 8)

It seems to me that French (rolled) rims seem to be found more on thicker gauge (.6mm or thicker) bells, and kranz rims seems to be found more on thinner gauge (.5mm or thinner) bells.

Many French rims tend to have a copper/brass wire inside (or nothing at all) whereas more kranz rims tend to feature a steel wire inside.

Experience has shown me that the .5mm thickness tuba bells (kranz with steel wire) will still end up with more creases with equal levels of abuse.
This type of bell + rotary valves (tendency towards delicate mechanisms + vulnerable valve stems which are integral parts of the valve bodies themselves), I've consistently contended, is not the best choice (imo) for school use - particularly with post-mid-century-style parenting - combined with widespread juvenile substance abuse, etc. I don't argue with band directors, though, as they want what they want...and - at least - I've found a maker that builds the lever carriage brackets and braces in a titanic manner - out of double-thickness material - along with the large-size Minibal links, in conjunction with heavy-wall French (rolled) rim bells.

back to the topic (bell sheet metal thickness related to rim style choice)...

Conn "Vocabell" instruments' bells were even thicker, and - thus - rimless.

bloke " 'anyone here like to buy a Vocabell trombone...??"

Image


do you have one for sale? I have always wanted one of those puppies....

kk
Miraphone Norwegian Star Eb tuba
B&H Imperial Eb tuba
1919 Pan American BBb Helicon
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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby bloke » Sun May 06, 2018 10:07 pm

I bought one for the heck of it a while back.
I found it in a guitar store in Virginia.
It needs to be played…
I'm not playing it.
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Re: To Kranz, or not to Kranz? That is the question...

Postby TheGoyWonder » Mon May 07, 2018 7:00 am

It's pretty obvious to tell what happened when you look at the population then and the population now, especially select cities. Hopefully so obvious it doesn't need to be said outloud.

Tuba-related comment to avoid deletion: kranz below 17" for sure! Just not for CC tubas! :roll:
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