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Any thoughts on the Bb/C (or C/Bb) Euphoniums on eBay?
-or-
Is there anybody doing custom work such as cutting a Bb euphonium to produce a C euphoninum?

I play a CC tuba, and am looking for a C euphonium for pieces like Bydlo to make the G4 easier, but also I just finished a musical where the pit orchestra book has the tuba doubling on Euphonium or Baritone.

Thanks,
George

Here you go!

https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tu ... tuba-tc236

UncleBeer wrote:Here you go! https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tu ... tuba-tc236

Okay... That is nice. But I'm really not into piston valves... and the 3+3 config doesn't really flat my boat.

How about one like this?

geomiklas wrote: How about one like this?

Avoid! We used to sell and discontinued because intonation is not good, particularly in C.

But if you still want, I think I have one left in store which you could have for less than that eBay price.

Wyvern wrote: Avoid! We used to sell and discontinued because intonation is not good, particularly in C. But if you still want, I think I have one left in store which you could have for less than that eBay price.

First, I would imagine that the shipping would perhaps make it cost prohibitive.... Second, does Wessex have any prototypes of such a rotary 4-valve, C Euphonium?

geomiklas wrote:Any thoughts on the Bb/C (or C/Bb) Euphoniums on eBay?

No. Just no. What Wyvern wrote, and then some.

Wessex has already forged ahead with some original designs in Tubas. As someone also interested, looking for reasons here.... Is it:
1. A general inability to design a dedicated C euphonium from the ground up (Piston compensating or Rotary) with workable intonation? or
2. Is the demand not enough to profit from the design, tooling, and production of a line of such instruments? or
3. Both of the above

Tampaworth wrote:Wessex has already forged ahead with some original designs in Tubas. As someone also interested, looking for reasons here.... Is it:
1. A general inability to design a dedicated C euphonium from the ground up (Piston compensating or Rotary) with workable intonation? or
2. Is the demand not enough to profit from the design, tooling, and production of a line of such instruments? or
3. Both of the above

I have to think that
1.) If you build it, and market it, people will buy it.
2.) The only way to accurately judge the market, is to make the product available for purchase.
3.) After the original R&D of taking an existing design and modifying it, is demand really an issue?

P.S.: I want mine rotary valves, and prefer a 5 valve version.

As perhaps an example of what you are looking for - what about the Miraphone 56A in C?

https://www.miraphone.de/en/instruments/baritone?p=2" target="_blank

MusicSmiths wrote:As perhaps an example of what you are looking for - what about the Miraphone 56A in C? https://www.miraphone.de/en/instruments/baritone?p=2" target="_blank" target="_blank

YES maybe I can score a used one.

Tampaworth wrote: Is it:
1. A general inability to design a dedicated C euphonium from the ground up (Piston compensating or Rotary) with workable intonation?

Before you (pre)judge, you should give the Wessex French tuba a try. It's a great instrument, easy for CC tubists to navigate (just an octave up from what you already know), and the 6 valves aren't daunting at all: 1-5 are regular tuba valves, and the 6th lowers it a 5th.

UncleBeer wrote:

Tampaworth wrote: Is it:
1. A general inability to design a dedicated C euphonium from the ground up (Piston compensating or Rotary) with workable intonation?

Before you (pre)judge, you should give the Wessex French tuba a try. It's a great instrument, easy for CC tubists to navigate (just an octave up from what you already know), and the 6 valves aren't daunting at all: 1-5 are regular tuba valves, and the 6th lowers it a 5th.

Who has one sitting in a store for me to play?

Mark Finley wrote:The way wessex is barnstorming the country, just sit tight, sounds like they will be knocking on your front door any day now

Okay so if Wessex is reading this....
I would like them to clone a Miraphone 186 with 5 valves, the 5th valve being Major 3rd configuration, and right thumb trigger.
I would also like them to clone a Miraphone 56A and modify it with 5 valves with right thumb trigger.

I will gladly answer my door when Wessex comes knocking!

Is a C Euphonium really an instrument of much use?
Yes, it will be very comfortable for every CC-Tuba player. BUT... if you have to play it in an normal band setting it will never blend with the Bb instruments around.
A properly developed C horn will have no special intonation problems (at least not more than any other tuning), but being shorter, it should be narrower as well. So it will sound brighter than a scaled up comparable Bb horn.
Bad intonation of most C instruments comes from poor development. Hacking off some inches of an existing horn does not always work. I have two french 4Valve C-Saxhorns, which are quite good to play, one of them with an insertion piece for the main tuning slide to play it in Bb. It plays better in C! But it is also a totally different instrument in sound and feel when played in Bb!
I think there is no tradition and therefore no need for an Euphonium-register C instrument, so no manufacturer will create a proper one. YES:Thanks to Wessex for making the new old French C! I can't wait for delivery!

With regards to the Wessex French C, I see the 6th valve drops this a fifth, effectively making it a small F tuba. Is there enough slack on the individual (1-5th) valve tuning slides to pull them out appropriately and keep it in tune? I'm not sure if just dropping the 6th valve alone will do the trick - has anyone who has played one found this to be OK? If it works as advertised, then I'm definitely interested as have Pictures to do later in the year....

The French C Tuba is a bit different from the most brass instruments. Nearly all valved brass comes from the trumpet/trombone/french horn line, where you use the first partial and higher partials, the use of the fundamental comes a bit later and with a lot of practising. And therefore you need three valves to mimick the centuries-old trombone slide. OK, with four valves the intonation in the lower range is better and there are some more notes playable. And then the never-tired human brain invented some more valves for filling the deficits of the valve-combinations. And the compensating systems and triggers etc...
And there is the French Tuba: it has its origins directly in the ophicleide. There you start with a strong fundamental, filling the octave to first partial you have to use the right hand keys (the left hand valves on French Tuba), above first partial you can do nearly everything with the left hand (right hand on FT). The important thing is on French Tuba not to think as a 4-plus-troubleshooters or switch-to-another-key instrument! It is not too difficult to get used to a different fingering, which needs between fundamental and first partial only one one note three valves, all others can be played with only one or two valves.
For that reason it is much more comfortable to play a French Tuba in the lower register than an Euphonium and it is not stuffing up the notes going down and then suddenly again a very open fundamental (just listen to Chuck Daellenbach's Tuba Tiger Rag at the end: the difference between D and C is easy to hear).
The old tutor books for FT are doing a lot of work in the very low register and even old beginner pieces for this instrument are going lower than most pro pieces for Euphonium...
I hope the Wessex FT will be a fine instrument (I have ordered one so I can retire my trusty but a bit tatty old Courtois), at least they used a good template and I am still very happy with their Ophicleide!