Bb or Eb ?

[tubamike]

I try to determine from distance if a Sousaphone offered on Ebay is a Bb or Eb tuned horn. The present owner isn't a musician and can't determine it by playing. But he mesures all I ask him to do.
I was told a rule that middle valve tube that comes out to tuning slide, under 6" it is an Eb and over 6" it is a Bb.
This one measures 6-1/2" from valve body to start of pull ring on slide. Is it a Bb or a Eb Sousa ?
Are there other methods for a non musician to find out if it's a Bb or a Eb ?

[Hank74]

As one who owned both versions at one time, I can tell this simple rule to tell the difference.

If the tubing which touches your shoulder continues to go behind your back to the valve section, then it would be a BBb. If not and that tubing ends about where the bell begins to turn upward, then it's an Eb. Also, look for the size of the bell as a clue. Most Eb sousas' bells are no more than 24" in diameter.

Hank74

[Dean E]

I try to determine from distance if a Sousaphone offered on Ebay is a Bb or Eb tuned horn.
* * * *
Are there other methods for a non musician to find out if it's a Bb or a Eb ?

Here's a previous duiscussion thread.
http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/feb2004 ... 65851.html

[Dan Schultz]

As one who owned both versions at one time, I can tell this simple rule to tell the difference.

If the tubing which touches your shoulder continues to go behind your back to the valve section, then it would be a BBb. If not and that tubing ends about where the bell begins to turn upward, then it's an Eb. Also, look for the size of the bell as a clue. Most Eb sousas' bells are no more than 24" in diameter.

Hank74

The configuration of the tube (dummy pipe) that goes over the shoulder is a fair indication of the key of the horn and may be true with Conns, Bueschers, Martins, and some others.... but is NOT TRUE in the case or Reynolds, Kings, and possibly others. The King and Reynolds Eb sousa do not have the 'dummy pipe' but have a smaller wrap.

The length of the 2nd valve tubing is a good visual test is you have both types of horns sitting side-by-side. Probably a better test. The length of the open bugle on a BBb tuba is about 18' while the open bugle of an Eb tuba is about 12'. Measure from the end of the receiver, through the open valve section, and all the way to the end of the bell. This will only give you a fair indication of the options of Eb or BBb but if you throw in an F or CC tuba as options, that theory goes out the window.

Also, the size of the bell has absolutely nothing to do with the key of the horn.

Tubas, sousas, and helicons have been made in about any configuration imaginable. You might post a link and see what everyone says. Surely the folks on this BBS have seen about everything.

The only true test is to blow it and see what the tuner says!

[Lew]

I owned a Buescher Eb helicon that didn't have the dummy tube, but also had a full wrap. It had a very small opening, but if you saw it by itself in a photo without a frame of reference it would be easy to mistake for a BBb. I have seen some of their sousaphones made with the same wrap.

The valve slide lengths seem to be the easiest way to tell for certain, especially the 3rd valve. It is clearly shorter on an Eb horn, which is pretty obvious when you see it.