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Re: loud

Postby Leland » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:38 pm

Stryk wrote:I am doubting they are close to 120db - an entire 350 piece college marching band is about that.

The actual dB numbers depend a lot on proximity and where they're playing. We had OSHA people come to an indoor rehearsal and do some measurements on our ensemble (about 45-55 brass, depending on the year, plus about 15 battery percussion), and we were hitting 115+ when measured at the podium in front of the group. Back in the percussion, it peaked in the high 120s, I think. We didn't get numbers that high when measured outdoors.

Earplugs were standard issue, and the OSHA results were used to justify the cost.

Pics from a rehearsal break and of my stash of musicians' earplugs:
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Re: loud

Postby Lee Stofer » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:04 am

Antontuba wrote:Fritz Kaenzig told me he knew someone who had a sophisticated, high end volume / decibel instrument. Playing as loud as he possibly could, with multiple attempts, the highest reading he was able to achieve was around 7, on a 0-10 scale. When he played as full, rich, as possible, he scored almost 9. He said it’s all about the overtones.


It seems that many people think that the Chicago Symphony brass section has the capability to play very loud, but what they are doing is playing very well in-tune and resonating very well, which is very powerful at any dynamic level. Resonating, and making the overtones work for you is more important than blowing X - number of liters of air per minute.
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Re: loud

Postby roweenie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:20 am

Lee Stofer wrote:It seems that many people think that the Chicago Symphony brass section has the capability to play very loud, but what they are doing is playing very well in-tune and resonating very well, which is very powerful at any dynamic level. Resonating, and making the overtones work for you is more important than blowing X - number of liters of air per minute.


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Re: loud

Postby proam » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:01 am

That video reminds me of the french style of playing hunting horns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmQv67CmPf8

It also reminds me of the Tennessee State University marching band which I enjoy watching very much. Their energy and enthusiasm makes me happy.
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Re: loud

Postby Roger Lewis » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:43 am

Interesting thread. There was a broadcast of Science Friday on NPR a while ago that was investigating how many "trumpets" it would have taken to actually bring down the walls of Jericho. They determined that it would take about 170 decibels to do it. They brought in one of the engineers from Altec Lansing speakers and he stated that they could not build a speaker that could go that load. He also mentioned that at 150 decibels, the air around the sound source turns into plasma. Great stuff.

Personally I have been clocked at about 120 db using the meter in Harvey Phillips' studio.
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Re: loud

Postby swillafew » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:48 am

In 1980 I worked as Keystone Kop (tubist) at Valleyfair! amusement park. Another group was the Oom-Pah band, same instrumentation as our band (5 horns, two drums). One day our band was on the far end of the park from the Oom-Pahs, and you could clearly hear them through roller coasters, games of all kinds, lots of din. The euphonium player in particular was quite a breath support player (Roxanne DeBates, as I recall) , and we could hear her about as loud as the rest of the band put together. The memory of it really sticks, we were a long way from where we should have been able to hear even a note of it.

Playing in tune is what makes the sound carry. An unfocused or unclear sound doesn't go far. All summer, school groups would parade though the park, and sometimes we fell in with them and picked up whatever they were playing. We weren't quite as tuned up as the Oom-Pahs but we could equal the smaller school bands without any trouble.
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Re: loud

Postby brassbow » Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:29 am

The reason for the original post is that I play on a conn 2j eb 3/4 in a british brass band. My fellow Eb are on bats. One is a monster york bugle with conn or besson valve sets. Not sure of the other but is has a 19/20 inch bell.
https://www.nebraskabrassband.com/live" target="_blank

We get pretty loud. My concern is to get a balence I feel I have to be twice as loud to blend.
As to projection, I try to focus on enveloping the entire venue with sound. So can a small bore 3/4 keep up with EEb large bore batz? In asking what the norm DB level, it gives me an idea of if I am there, or i should work with an spl meter more. Thanks
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Re: loud

Postby Leland » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:28 pm

brassbow wrote:The reason for the original post is that I play on a conn 2j eb 3/4 in a british brass band. My fellow Eb are on bats. One is a monster york bugle with conn or besson valve sets. Not sure of the other but is has a 19/20 inch bell.
https://www.nebraskabrassband.com/live" target="_blank" target="_blank

We get pretty loud. My concern is to get a balence I feel I have to be twice as loud to blend.
As to projection, I try to focus on enveloping the entire venue with sound. So can a small bore 3/4 keep up with EEb large bore batz? In asking what the norm DB level, it gives me an idea of if I am there, or i should work with an spl meter more. Thanks

I'd ask an observer to listen closely and give feedback. Your seat, inside the section, is a bad place for hearing what it sounds like on the other side of the bell.

I'd also say that the color of your sound is more important than simple SPL. If you were to play at a measured SPL level that's equal to the others, but your sound is brighter and more shrill, you'll seem louder, and you won't be blending as well.

Match the tone color first. That's your priority as a section player.
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Re: loud

Postby ren » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:19 am

there are a lot of myths about playing the tuba. one is thats it's so physical and requires sooo much air. it doesn't. it does require a certain efficiency which is based on a lot of how your embouchure works or doesn't and how you articulate.

i can go from zero to a hundred without stepping on the gas you just let the air go and if your embouchure responds it can be very very loud. it can also have good tone but it needs to be musically appropriate at all times.

i think a step forward for tubists would be to stop focusing on physicality of playing the instrument it's nearly meaningless. your a mammal you know how to breathe, if you are pounding the instrument with breathe you are doing it wrong. With efficiency you can play nearly anything you want at any volume level. hopefully musically.

the harder you blow or the more effort you put into blowing the more you will just gas out and sound like a euphonium. and not a good euphonium.
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Re: loud

Postby Matt Walters » Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:16 am

The "Worser the Player, the Louder the Sounder". I've heard some REALLY LOUD sounds over the years. :roll:
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Re: loud

Postby Donn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:25 am

Leland wrote:
brassbow wrote:... My concern is to get a balance I feel I have to be twice as loud to blend. ...

...
I'd also say that the color of your sound is more important than simple SPL. If you were to play at a measured SPL level that's equal to the others, but your sound is brighter and more shrill, you'll seem louder, and you won't be blending as well.

Match the tone color first. That's your priority as a section player.


[Just seemed to bear repeating.]
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Re: loud

Postby Stryk » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:59 am

Matt Walters wrote:The "Worser the Player, the Louder the Sounder". I've heard some REALLY LOUD sounds over the years. :roll:


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