Bydlo on the euphonium

[Northernlb]

Right now the conventional wisdom is to play it on Bb euphonium, like everything that will change over time. The real issue is that neither the tuba or the euphonium is the instrument that part was written for so everyone continues to play around with which instrument works best. The Jupiter will work well for that solo considering the range and the amount of time you want to put into playing euphonium.

[geomiklas]

Right now the conventional wisdom is to play it on Bb euphonium, like everything that will change over time. The real issue is that neither the tuba or the euphonium is the instrument that part was written for so everyone continues to play around with which instrument works best. The Jupiter will work well for that solo considering the range and the amount of time you want to put into playing euphonium.

Thank you. I think the horn has a nice round tone. And since I never need the 1/3 combo for Bydlo, pitch is not an issue.

[geomiklas]

ok at risk of being wrong i'll post the eastman story. Roger can correct me if i'm wrong or one of his contemporaries. the story was related to me thusly.

Mr Bobo was already great had perhaps had the rochester job at the time and a visiting conductor or perhaps the eastman conductor after Rogers flawless performance of bydlo in rehearsal admonished him in front of the orchestra.

"Maestro this part is written for tuba not euphonium" or something along those lines. Given the story dates from the 80s i'm sure the telephone effect was applied.

Either way keep it real folks. it's a tuba part and it's not that hard ego has little to do with it.

Thank you for your input and opinion.

[geomiklas]

the irony of the story was that according to the legend Roger was playing it on a tuba although likely a 184.

I played for a conductor that was clueless.... just sayin'

[Radar]

I totally "get" the 4-valve non-comp thing. I owned that very model for a long time...and the used market offers many good options.
...but I've begun to think that a 3-valve is almost as good as a 4-valve non-comp.
- low range isn't much without compensating...mostly: funny tubing lengths offered
- 1-3 combo is pretty good with a 3-valve, with 1-2-3 sucking, but mostly - that's just B natural.
- "a few hundred bucks" gets a new 3-valve...which is made from the same bugle parts as are the 3+1 comp's.
- 3-valve weighs very little...small added bonus...
- Otherwise, a decent Chino-comp is only c. $12XX, and plays all the low pitches, etc.
- If the dependent insert rotor gadget for a 4-valve inline non-comp were widely available as an accessory (for some really low price, such as $2XX, etc.) the 4-inline non-comp. would be a super-cool thing.

My thinking on this has changed - not due to me, but - due to people ordering 3-valve eupho's from me (quite a few people) WITHOUT me marketing/advertising them at all...

I've been playing a Yamaha 321 with a modified receiver to accept a Medium / Euro Shank mouthpiece (I use a Lehmen M). You really need the 4th valve to play Holst's First suite, and a few others I've run across, pulling that off on a non-comp instrument does require some alternate fingerings and a little bit of extra length on the 4th valve slide. As of late though as you suggest it would be easier on a Compensating instrument, and with some of the cheaper versions of these coming out I have considered biting the bullet and after all these years picking up a Wessex Dolce or similar model. There would be some adjustment required on my part though. After all these decades playing a non-compensating Euphonium, on the few times I've tried a compensating horn my lower notes are flat because I'm so used to lipping them down. I've also considered the 5th rotary valve option, but at that price point of the one that's available it isn't worth it. I'm sure he would sell quite a few of them if he cut the price in half.

[Mike C855B]

Bydlo... geez... I was at a concert of the [shall remain nameless major big-city orchestra because you'll immediately know who I'm talking about] with Pictures on the program. Long story short, the solo was attempted on what was clearly a contrabass tuba, maybe even a BBb. I said "attempted". I've made my share of daggers-from-the-maestro mistakes on exposed parts, but this was a whopper. Total, total disaster. It might have been the first of a multiple concert series with the same program so if it was, I'll bet dollars-to-donuts he dug out a euph for the remaining performances.

I didn't know the guy at the time since I was new in town, becoming acquainted later doing various ensemble work. I had the good sense to never bring it up and he would probably be mortified if I did even now, 35 years later.

[MikeMason]

Third time for me coming up this September. In performance context, it is very exposed. Very. Last time I used a 321 euphonium,which I practiced non stop for 6 weeks pryor. It went “well”. This time, principal trombone handling. He will look at it for maybe a week or 2 and it will go great, and the low loud tuba stuff will go much better, since my practice time won’t be divided.

[happyroman]

Here is a video of Carl Kleinstuber performing Bydlo on his French C tuba, the instrument Ravel had in mind when he wrote his transcription. Wessex makes a very nice French C tuba.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28ZN7rPCxXs" target="_blank

[happyroman]

“Put your ego aside and let one of the trombone players who are already tacet take care of it.”

- Gene Pokorny

You left out the part of the quote that says this applies once you have the job.

Unfortunately, this approach won't help you during an audition, and Bydlo is on audition lists more often than not.

[Uncle Markie]

Henry Smith played Bydlo on a Conn euphonium for years. Sounded great too. I don't think Torchinsky ever did play that solo.

[Alex C]

I haven't read the replies on the thread, so I really only responding to the original poster.

Things have changed since you were a student. Most of the great tubists of old made their bones on one tuba. Offhand I can list Jacobs, Bishop, Schmidt, Torchinsky, Phillips, Roberts, Bobo... the list goes on. In the last couple of decades we find that orchestral tubists use CC, BBb and F tuba almost equally, depending on the sound they want. Recent interest has even revived the French tuba as well.

BUT... no self-respecting tubist in the past would have played Bydlo on anything BUT his main horn, BBb or CC, hence John's comment to you in your student days. Things changed. If the orchestra requires that the tubist plays Bydlo (when it is usually handed off to one of the trombones) then remember that NOW it is entirely acceptable to play Bydlo on whichever horn you (and the conductor) think works best. Nothing wrong with euphonium at all.

I was studying with Jacobs when Pictures came up and he was tasked with playing the solo himself, which he did on his York CC. He had shaved his mustache and was "demonstrating" it in lessons. I listened to him once and afterward, he slumped a little and said, "there's really no way to prepare for this. There is no way to prepare to sit onstage with the entire orchestra in front of you while you play high G sharps." He did it marvelously, of course. Not a scratch in three performances.

[Ken Herrick]

Not to argue, but to clarify one thing, "BUT... no self-respecting tubist in the past would have played Bydlo on anything BUT his main horn." Jake used an F which he hated and buried in the bowels of Orchestra Hall after the Kubelik recording of Pictures.

[geomiklas]

I haven't read the replies on the thread, so I really only responding to the original poster.

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your input. I recognize that pedagogy has changed as related to this topic. I'm perfectly fine playing it on a Euphonium. Currently, I transposed it to play Baritone T.C. as my brain is not switching fingerings as easy as I can switch clefs.

Now to find a respectable sounding C Euphonium so that I don't have to transpose exposed parts like Bydlo.

[geomiklas]

Now to find a respectable sounding C Euphonium so that I don't have to transpose exposed parts like Bydlo.

If you're relating a "C tuba" to a baritone/euphonium, you are already transposing - at the octave.

I got that. Visually when I see a "C" in any clef, my mind goes to "open" not "1/3" or "1"

There's approximately a 99% better chance of finding a "respectable sounding" instrument in that voice built with a Bb open overtone series, but as you have recently upgraded your primary instrument from Jinbao to Miraphone, Miraphone does offer to make a Kaiser baritone in C. I wonder if a single one of these is available to play-test on the North American continent. My pricing wild-guess would be $7000 - with a special-order 5th valve added (to be fully chromatic), shipping, and duty. How often are you playing the Mussorgsky/Ravel ?

That it out of budget at this time. For the frequency it would be used, I'll probably need to settle on a Jinbao C Euphonium for now. If Jupiter made a C Euphonium, I would buy one through my KHS sales rep since I'm an authorized Hohner dealer.

btw...I think it's cool that you repair harmonicas. That means that you repair GOOD harmonicas.

Thank you. When somebody wants a $45 harmonica repaired, I offer to sell them a new $45 harmonica. I repair models that start at $200+. The most expensive chromatic harmonica that I've serviced is the Hohner Silver Concerto, MSRP $10,000.00


P.S.: Here an upcoming concert...


1987 - 1992, I played the Tuba in this band.