Bydlo on the euphonium

[geomiklas]

So this spring I began working on all of the standard repertoire again (after 20+ years), including Bydlo. Back in undergrad, John Turk had me working on Bydlo on my CC, because that was the only horn I owned. So now I'm working on it again, and had the occasion to speak with my old tuba teacher and told him what I was doing. Now he tells me that I'm crazy to play Bydlo on my CC horn, and I should either give the solo to a trombone player, or else bring out a euphonium.

So I've been reading threads and asking questions about C euphoniums and it seems that the consensus is that they do not blend well with other horns.

So what to do????? I don't want to get screwed up with Bb Euphonium fingers and CC Tuba fingers.... So just last night I, transposted Bydlo to Euphonium T.C. Worked on it today, and it is a pretty good restart. The only bad thing is that my transposition doesn't do anything good for me sight reading on the euphonium!

[UDELBR]

So I've been reading threads and asking questions about C euphoniums and it seems that the consensus is that they do not blend well with other horns.

What's to blend? Bydlo's a solo.

[Kdtuba]

The difference between CC and Bb fingerings is negligible. Try not to relate them together and just imagine having an On/Off switch in your brain for each instrument. When I switch between Horn, Eb Tuba, and CC Tuba, I just acknowledge the instrument I'm playing and press buttons / form embouchure accordingly.

It may take a little while to get used to, but Euphonium in Bb is much more widely known and used for a reason.

[windshieldbug]

For what it’s worth, I’ve performed it on a CC tuba, F tuba and a Bb euphonium.
The euphonium is by far easier, and probably closer to what Ravel intended...

[JasonEuphonium]

Even if you account for learning new fingerings, Bydlo is by far easiest played on euphonium, and IMHO it sounds way better than on any kind of tuba - F, CC, or anything else.

[UDELBR]

locating a C euphonium-type horn that is predictable and stable in this key will be a massive PITA for you.

Two or three clicks and it's yours. https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/eu ... tuba-tc236

[geomiklas]

Well I bought a Jupiter 3-valve at a yard sale for $100. You don't get them cheaper than that! My son has been playing it for about 6 years, until last year the school band director gave him a Yamaha 4-valve to play. Now he only plays the Jupiter for Tuba Christmas. So you might say he and I are going to share the Jupiter.

I'm still looking to add an F tuba to my audition arsenal.

George

[InTuneBb]

“Put your ego aside and let one of the trombone players who are already tacet take care of it.”

- Gene Pokorny

[geomiklas]

“Put your ego aside and let one of the trombone players who are already tacet take care of it.”

- Gene Pokorny

GENE !!!!

Do you remember August 7/8, 1985? I was then playing the 48 Chord Harmonica with Jerry Murad’s Harmonicats. We were on stage with the St LOUIS Symphony and you played Tuba on our concerts! Richard Hayman was conductor in his bright custom patchwork tux.

I believe that David Lind was a grad student of yours then too.

Yes John Turk told me that the last time he played it with Youngstown SO, he gave it to a trombone player.

[InTuneBb]

“Put your ego aside and let one of the trombone players who are already tacet take care of it.”

- Gene Pokorny

GENE !!!!

Do you remember August 7/8, 1985? I was then playing the 48 Chord Harmonica with Jerry Murad’s Harmonicats. We were on stage with the St LOUIS Symphony and you played Tuba on our concerts! Richard Hayman was conductor in his bright custom patchwork tux.

I believe that David Lind was a grad student of yours then too.

Yes John Turk told me that the last time he played it with Youngstown SO, he gave it to a trombone player.

Oh no, sorry for the confusion. I WISH I was Gene. I was just quoting something he says on his excerpt CD, lol.

[geomiklas]

“Put your ego aside and let one of the trombone players who are already tacet take care of it.”

- Gene Pokorny

GENE !!!!

Do you remember August 7/8, 1985? I was then playing the 48 Chord Harmonica with Jerry Murad’s Harmonicats. We were on stage with the St LOUIS Symphony and you played Tuba on our concerts! Richard Hayman was conductor in his bright custom patchwork tux.

I believe that David Lind was a grad student of yours then too.

Yes John Turk told me that the last time he played it with Youngstown SO, he gave it to a trombone player.

Oh no, sorry for the confusion. I WISH I was Gene. I was just quoting something he says on his excerpt CD, lol.

No prob....

[Worth]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rx6Eo6liyCg" target="_blank" target="_blank

Alessandro Fossi on Tuba making the ox cart sound effortless. Type of tuba?

[DouglasJB]

The horn Alessandro is using is a PT16 in that video. It does sound effortless

[Art Hovey]

I agree that any decent trombonist with a baritone horn can make it sound better than most of us tuba players.
I have also heard it done very well with a three piston Eb tuba.

[Snake Charmer]

When I played the solo at a masterclass on my Courtois French Tuba (he asked me to play it twice) Roger Bobo turned to the audience and said: Just listen! THIS was how it was intended to sound. I know it is a sport for all of us, but don`t make circus attraction out of this wonderful piece of music, playing a too big instrument!

[Northernlb]

Right now the conventional wisdom is to play it on Bb euphonium, like everything that will change over time. The real issue is that neither the tuba or the euphonium is the instrument that part was written for so everyone continues to play around with which instrument works best. The Jupiter will work well for that solo considering the range and the amount of time you want to put into playing euphonium.

[geomiklas]

Right now the conventional wisdom is to play it on Bb euphonium, like everything that will change over time. The real issue is that neither the tuba or the euphonium is the instrument that part was written for so everyone continues to play around with which instrument works best. The Jupiter will work well for that solo considering the range and the amount of time you want to put into playing euphonium.

Thank you. I think the horn has a nice round tone. And since I never need the 1/3 combo for Bydlo, pitch is not an issue.

[geomiklas]

ok at risk of being wrong i'll post the eastman story. Roger can correct me if i'm wrong or one of his contemporaries. the story was related to me thusly.

Mr Bobo was already great had perhaps had the rochester job at the time and a visiting conductor or perhaps the eastman conductor after Rogers flawless performance of bydlo in rehearsal admonished him in front of the orchestra.

"Maestro this part is written for tuba not euphonium" or something along those lines. Given the story dates from the 80s i'm sure the telephone effect was applied.

Either way keep it real folks. it's a tuba part and it's not that hard ego has little to do with it.

Thank you for your input and opinion.

[geomiklas]

the irony of the story was that according to the legend Roger was playing it on a tuba although likely a 184.

I played for a conductor that was clueless.... just sayin'

[Radar]

I totally "get" the 4-valve non-comp thing. I owned that very model for a long time...and the used market offers many good options.
...but I've begun to think that a 3-valve is almost as good as a 4-valve non-comp.
- low range isn't much without compensating...mostly: funny tubing lengths offered
- 1-3 combo is pretty good with a 3-valve, with 1-2-3 sucking, but mostly - that's just B natural.
- "a few hundred bucks" gets a new 3-valve...which is made from the same bugle parts as are the 3+1 comp's.
- 3-valve weighs very little...small added bonus...
- Otherwise, a decent Chino-comp is only c. $12XX, and plays all the low pitches, etc.
- If the dependent insert rotor gadget for a 4-valve inline non-comp were widely available as an accessory (for some really low price, such as $2XX, etc.) the 4-inline non-comp. would be a super-cool thing.

My thinking on this has changed - not due to me, but - due to people ordering 3-valve eupho's from me (quite a few people) WITHOUT me marketing/advertising them at all...

I've been playing a Yamaha 321 with a modified receiver to accept a Medium / Euro Shank mouthpiece (I use a Lehmen M). You really need the 4th valve to play Holst's First suite, and a few others I've run across, pulling that off on a non-comp instrument does require some alternate fingerings and a little bit of extra length on the 4th valve slide. As of late though as you suggest it would be easier on a Compensating instrument, and with some of the cheaper versions of these coming out I have considered biting the bullet and after all these years picking up a Wessex Dolce or similar model. There would be some adjustment required on my part though. After all these decades playing a non-compensating Euphonium, on the few times I've tried a compensating horn my lower notes are flat because I'm so used to lipping them down. I've also considered the 5th rotary valve option, but at that price point of the one that's available it isn't worth it. I'm sure he would sell quite a few of them if he cut the price in half.