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VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:47 pm

I'll not identify the author of this. If the choose to own it - and to identify their areas of expertise, that's fine.

While I’m not a tribologist, my work does require that I have more than a passing understanding of lubrication.

The piston valve as we know it is about as undemanding an application for lubrication as can be imagined. As you rightly point out frequently, contamination and scale build-up are the major issues with poorly performing valves. So the lubricant matters almost not at all, other than using plenty.


...and I would only add: "and offering a low-enough viscosity to be able to play music."

your comments below:
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby Donn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:40 pm

That may be true - if you aren't a red hot player!
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby bloke » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Donn wrote:That may be true - if you aren't a red hot player!


I know about the mouthpieces and mutes, but is there such as thing as Wick Oil ?

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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby Ken Herrick » Wed Jul 04, 2018 10:26 pm

Doesn't your ultra pure lamp oil work for either application?
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby proam » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:09 pm

“So the lubricant matters almost not at all, other than using plenty.”

While I (used to?) like Ultra Pure valve oil I have recently found that - for me - it doesn’t sit well. If I have it on a horn and don’t play for a few days, the valves stick horrendously and re-oiling doesn’t help. I have to scrub out the valves and casings and start from scratch. Seems like Al Cass would last forever and, even after months of non-use, I could just oil the valves and they’d be ready to go.
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby bloke » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:36 pm

proam wrote:“So the lubricant matters almost not at all, other than using plenty.”

While I (used to?) like Ultra Pure valve oil I have recently found that - for me - it doesn’t sit well. If I have it on a horn and don’t play for a few days, the valves stick horrendously and re-oiling doesn’t help. I have to scrub out the valves and casings and start from scratch. Seems like Al Cass would last forever and, even after months of non-use, I could just oil the valves and they’d be ready to go.


While I’m not a tribologist, my work does require that I have more than a passing understanding of lubrication.

The piston valve as we know it is about as undemanding an application for lubrication as can be imagined. As you rightly point out frequently, contamination and scale build-up are the major issues with poorly performing valves. So the lubricant matters almost not at all, other than using plenty.
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby vespa50sp » Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:14 am

I use trombone slide oil. Probably wrong, but it works for me.
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby bloke » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:43 am

vespa50sp wrote:I use trombone slide oil. Probably wrong, but it works for me.


difficult for me to tell much difference in (what's that fancy word...??) viscosity.

When I have to repair school-owned trombones' playing slides for use in marching band, the outside slide tubes (really) need to be discarded and replaced (yet, were that done, the new tubes would be re-trashed within a couple of years), but the repair budget per trombone is about $30, I (year-after-year) do what I can, the slides still feel terrible, but I then dip the inside slide tubes in my jug of lamp oil, and they work "sorta OK"...so that defines "done".
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby vespa50sp » Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 am

bloke wrote:difficult for me to tell much difference in (what's that fancy word...??) viscosity.


My old piston tubas are like my old jeep, they all just run better on a little heavier weight oil. Sewing machine oil is too heavy for the tuba though (tried that also : )
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby roweenie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:35 am

The way I do it (taking a page out of the bloke playbook) - I make my own. Ultra-pure lamp oil, mixed with mineral oil. Sometimes, I even put in a drop of peppermint oil, just to make it smell purty.

This way, the mixture can be tailored to each specific instrument, if so desired.

Aaaaaannnnnd, I save $$$$ - pennies per bottle, vs. $5 for 2 ounces of Al Cass (this is no small point, if you have several horns, work on or build tubas, etc.).

Works for me (ranging from newly plated pistons, to somewhat worn ones) - YMMV.

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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby bloke » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:55 am

vespa50sp wrote:
bloke wrote:difficult for me to tell much difference in (what's that fancy word...??) viscosity.


My old piston tubas are like my old jeep, they all just run better on a little heavier weight oil. Sewing machine oil is too heavy for the tuba though (tried that also : )


I get it...
Specifically, it's hard for me to tell much of a difference between 1 oz. bottles marketed as "valve oil", 1 oz. bottles marketed as "rotor oil", and 1 oz. bottles marketed as "slide oil".
Then again, I don't claim to be the most sensitive brass musician in existence.
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby roweenie » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:03 am

bloke wrote:Specifically, it's hard for me to tell much of a difference between 1 oz. bottles marketed as "valve oil", 1 oz. bottles marketed as "rotor oil", and 1 oz. bottles marketed as "slide oil".


I suspect you are not alone :tuba:

(Coincidentally, this circular discussion regarding lubrication also exists among Model T Ford enthusiasts.)
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby Worth » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:12 am

roweenie wrote:
(Coincidentally, this circular discussion regarding lubrication also exists among Model T Ford enthusiasts.)


Ongoing and sometimes painful lubrication discussions also in the various Harley Davidson forums.
Interesting though, how many views there always are!
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby ResilienceOils » Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:56 pm

Lubrication only matters to people who don't have an oil that works well for them. Longevity is important to schools, techs and people who leave instruments sitting for extended periods of time. etc.etc.etc. As a tech since the beginning a few extra dollars for something that keeps your instrument working well is important.
Through college we were all turned on to the blue and I always thought it was the pistons that had issues...later found out it was all the detergent drying off and leaving a film that made the pistons not work well.
It was important when you were in the middle of a gig and your valves quit working...
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby Three Valves » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:13 pm

I like it when people quote themselves.

I suspect they also laugh at their own jokes!!

:oops:
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Re: VALVE OIL (out-in-the-open troll warning)

Postby bloke » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:17 pm

Three Valves wrote:I like it when people quote themselves.

I suspect they also laugh at their own jokes!!

:oops:


...you're referring to "when looking down at the toilet bowl"...??
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