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5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby barry grrr-ero » Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:05 am

Good sirs and madams, why can't rotary valve sections also have the 5th valve farther back? Why is it different than with pistons?
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby Snake Charmer » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:52 am

Tradition. They are built this way for decades, and now the manufacturers do not want to produce something which nobody will buy. Because nowbody buys it now. Because nobody makes it. So nobody buys...
If one of the great players would order this for his own horn it would be possible to launch it as a signature model. But a lot of buyers are very traditional, too. When Miraf/phone launched their Presto System many years ago (improved linkage for rotary valves. Bloody good and a space age look) nobody ordered it. For the look...
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby thejester10276 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:59 am

Usually rotors are larger bores than pistons. With a 4+1 piston/rotor setup the rotor goes in further back than the pistons because the bore expands more, allowing a rotor with a significantly larger bore size than the piston to fit in. With a 5 valve rotary tuba, while the bore can be graduated, they're generally all going to have similar bores that don't expand very much from one to another, instead of 4 similarly sized rotors and then one huge rotor (generally rotors have larger bore sizes than pistons to begin with, so this 5th rotor would probably be huge, especially if the other 4 are already of a significant bore size). Basically, it's all about expanding the bore size as the instrument's length increases (conicality)

Hope that's helpful
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby Ken Herrick » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:18 am

Pretty simple, really. COST - As done now all can be mass produced - make a variation production costs go up.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby the elephant » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:22 am

I am building a 5 valve CC out of a King K-90 contrabass bugle. It will use four Miraphone 19.5 mm rotary valves with a 21 mm rotary valve after the vertical main tuning slide. Should be interesting...
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby Doc » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:50 am

the elephant wrote:Click here for a look at the best 6/4 now on the market...


That ain't right, Wade... That just ain't right.

:shock: :shock: :lol:
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Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby bloke » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:51 am

I haven't ever noticed that order improves or worsens response, and I'm not sure that larger bores (for circuits associated primarily with low range applications) are of any benefit, either.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby the elephant » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:54 am

I am. Thanks for your observation.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby barry grrr-ero » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:08 pm

Thanks for the input, everyone.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby Ulli » Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:59 pm

barry grrr-ero wrote:Good sirs and madams, why can't rotary valve sections also have the 5th valve farther back?


Like my Cerveny Harmonia CFB 654-6 with big quint- valve?

a picture of an other CFB 654-6:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-f ... 7675.l2557" target="_blank" target="_blank
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby emcallaway » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:15 pm

That's a groovy looking Cerveny.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby bort » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:12 pm

This Gronitz F tuba has the fifth at the bottom (but a 6th at the top!)

https://www.hornguys.com/products/groni ... ary-f-tuba
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby the elephant » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:13 pm

Ulli wrote:
barry grrr-ero wrote:Good sirs and madams, why can't rotary valve sections also have the 5th valve farther back?


Like my Cerveny Harmonia CFB 654-6 with big quint- valve?

a picture of an other CFB 654-6:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Professional-f ... 7675.l2557" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


I loved my 654-6. That quint valve was handy and HUGE, making the transition into the low end feel essentially the same as the rest of the horn — very balanced resistance, overall.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby bort » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:16 pm

Wade, I wonder where that tuba ended up? It was sold here on Tubenet almost yearly, but not for a long time now. Hopefully it has found it's forever home!
Something big, coming soon...!
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby the elephant » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:43 pm

bort wrote:Wade, I wonder where that tuba ended up? It was sold here on Tubenet almost yearly, but not for a long time now. Hopefully it has found it's forever home!


Marty started it. Not my fault. BAHAHAHA!!!
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby bort » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:46 pm

I wonder where Marty ended up? He used to post here on Tubenet almost daily, but not for a long time now.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby the elephant » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:01 pm

Yeah. I miss his posts.
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Re: 5 (rotary) valve designs - a serious question

Postby bloke » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:23 pm

the elephant wrote:Yeah. I miss his posts.


A search hints at "cold turkey" for 2018...(??)
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