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Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:28 am
by pauvog1
Northernlb wrote:I would choose the Kalison, if it is one of the good ones. There is some variation in how these were made since they were hand made in Italy. If you get one of the great ones like I have it will be a great tuba forever and will serve you very well. Also the addition of the five valves, the construction of the instrument, and easy slide reach make this a very well designed tuba.

I use the Kalison all of the time for playing and always get compliments on my sound, tuning, and intonation. I am surprised they have been forgotten, but I believe that is because there were not many made and they do not come up for sale that often anymore.


I havent played either horn. If we are referring to the ones at Dillon, then maybe the OP should call Matt and just ask. He's a great guy and super honest & informative about what he sells.

That being said, if I were to pick between an old Alex or a DS, sight unseen, I'd probably pick a DS as well. I like mine. I've noticed more variation from the large Kalison tubas than the DS.

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:21 pm
by Jonathan Fowler
I was at Dillon music a few weeks back and played the Alex 163. I did not play the DS so my bear that in mind - I was looking to compare this Alex (an older one) to my relatively new one. That being said, it is an awesome horn and has good intonation. It has a ton of the Alex charm in the sound, perhaps a more horn-like sound than mine. The receiver, if I recall, was quite large, so my PS02 did not fit properly, although I did borrow one of theirs (Dillon G - something) that happened to work really well with the horn.
The low range was quite quick and easy to light up - this is a very responsive instrument. I'd buy it, were I in the market, except for the fact that I'd be afraid to mess with the 4-valve configuration.

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:24 pm
by bigboymusic
It appears the Alex has been purchased... did it win out???

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:41 pm
by MackBrass
I purchased the Alex, great price and this is one pf the better 163 horns. There are a few experiments i will be doing on this one, basically i will be adding a 5th valve doing a similar design to the other Alex i jabe.

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:04 pm
by bloke
Tom is the "Alex guy" whereas Dan is the "Marzan guy".

bloke is the "posts way too often" guy.

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:21 am
by MackBrass
Alex Update.

First off, its not a good horn its a great effin tuba. Right off the bat the intonation on this one is not an issue what so ever, no alternate fingerings are needed by me at all amd lipping is minimal. First thing i did notice was the sound or focus just after the attack could be more focused, this is comparing to mine, and i am positive its due to the huge tube they call a leadpipe. Right now i am laying out parts to add a 5th and change the leadpipe.

The major difference between the newer alex and the vintage is the sound and the response on the front end of the attack. The newer alex has the better front end response but the vintage alex still has more depth in the sound. Finding a vintage alex with modern type intonation, priceless.

Just a note on the DS, gain i can su this as a former owner, they are good but they dont have the sound and there is no comparison to the low register of the older Alexander tubas.

Modern Alex tubas use a totally different much smaller valve. Take a valve from a pt6, a new alex, and a Jinbao 410 and do some comparisons, same valve. Heck, if you like the jinbao valve cap better, you can use them on the B&S or Alex, threads and size are oddly perfect, not that i tried or anything but i am just saying.

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:54 pm
by MackBrass
ren wrote:Goals are important, the goal of owning either of these tubas is completely lost on me unless its nostalgia.


Why do you say this? What in your opinion is wrong with these models? How do you think they fair with your horns in your experience?

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:03 pm
by bort
Tom, if this is so great, why risk the leadpipe and 5th valve changes?

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:26 pm
by MackBrass
bort wrote:Tom, if this is so great, why risk the leadpipe and 5th valve changes?


Thats a good question. The changes i am considering are the same i did to my other Alex and they improved the horn greatly. Everything i am thinking of will be reversible so if for sone reason it doesnt work i can change it back. One thing that is noticeably better on my Alex is the pop it has and the low register, i think its due to the smaller taper in the leadpipe. The 4v alex seems to be a looser blow if that makes sense and not as much pop especially in the low register and at the very least i think changing the leadpipe will help in that area. I know the Alex i have altered is a freak of a horn as far as the 163 cc goes so if i have half the success on this 4v it will be a huge winner. The main thing Craigs horn has over my other 163 is the pitch, the pitch is far better on his than what i started out with on mine. The biggest difference i see between the two 163 tubas is one is about 2 inches taller than the other, go figure. I guess this is what happeneds when you just cut the main tuning slide to bring a tuba from BBb to CC which is all Alexander did to make the earlier 163 CC tubas.

As a note, my old Alex started out as a regular standard 4v Alex that played about 40 cents flat across the board. I started out with cutting abiut 2 inches off the leadpipe to bring the pitch up then made one change at a time in stages making sure each change worked.

Re: Alexander 163 Vs Kalison Daryl Smith

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:27 pm
by Chris Mayer
....and except the model 173 is what Alexander maybe now with some minor tweaks still does today, cutting a BB more or less straight down to a CC by removing some length of tubing after the 4th valve leading to a side main tuning slide (BB) or a straight main tuning slide (CC).

A friend of mine got a silver 164 BB 5-6 years ago which was reworked from a 164 CC which got heavily damaged during shipment to the US by just replacing the CC tubing with the necessary Bb tubing in the main tuning slide area and of course also each tuning slide. Everything else, mouthpipe, bows, bell, remained the same as in the cc to reform an original 164 BB.

Maybe somebody could further elobarate on the way of making an 163/164 CC RIGHT now and the impact on intonation.

I can only say, that I have never found a sound equivalent to an Alex or maybe a Rudi. Their sound is so much more deep, complex and warm...

regards

Chris