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Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:39 pm
by J.c. Sherman
Alive and well! I use a YFB-621 as my F... not perfect for anything, but can do anything!

(Would still like and Alex F in the arsenal...)

J.c.S.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:47 am
by smitwill1
I’m no pro—I play in a local per-service symphony, teach a bit, and play in a couple of quintets. But, I use my YFB 822 as my “go-to” tuba for about three-quarters of what I do.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:55 am
by MikeMason
If I used it only for high orchestra stuff, I would own a b&s for the sound. But for use in quintet,solo rep, teaching, and general utility, it’s great to have that Yamaha low register. I’ve spent a lot of time getting acquainted with my 621, and am starting to be pretty pleased with the sound I’m making. Mouthpiece selection and working the lip slurs/long tones.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:21 am
by happyroman
smitwill1 wrote:I’m no pro—I play in a local per-service symphony, teach a bit, and play in a couple of quintets. But, I use my YFB 822 as my “go-to” tuba for about three-quarters of what I do.
I am pretty sure that Chris Olka and Carol Jantsch both use the YFB-822, as does Sergio Carolino. There are probably a lot more pros that I am not aware of that use this tuba as well.

I think it really boils down to finding the instrument that most easily helps you recreate the sound you have in your head.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:19 am
by Bnich93
I've only ever owned my 5 rotor Mirafone 181, which has a beautiful rich sound everywhere above D below the staff. Everything below that mark is why I wish I had a piston horn, as many of the ones i've tried have a much easier low register. I am particularly fond of the Miraphone Petroushka, and I actually really liked the Wessex Gnagey Eb. The only reason I haven't sold the 181 to buy the Wessex is because i'm very cautious about chinese build quality, and i'm not sure the one I would get would be as quality as the horn that I tried at SERTEC.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:03 pm
by hockeyched
Of the last several orchestral tuba auditions, I think many have been won on piston F tubas. Baltimore, Seattle, West Virginia, North Carolina, Cincinnati I believe all were won on piston f. Food for thought.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:27 am
by besson900
Most of You guys are living in USA but i think You dont know how it looks like i Europe

Im from Poland and here doesnt matter what kind of Tuba You are playing , piston or rotary. When we have auditions You can meet piston and rotary players, if You are playing good it doesnt matter what kind of instrument You have. From 4-5 years i see that rotary players(99% B&S) are switching into the piston(99% MW 2250) and if i had the money i would buy 2250 too. Low register and legatos or slurs sounds better on piston i think and thats the reason.

In Germany or Austria NOBODY is playing piston tubas or CC flat tubas, if you have one of those instruments You can be 100% sure that You will dont get this job there. If You are student You have to switch it for B&S of traditional sound MElton like 4460. My friend last year joined to Stefan Heimann class in Mannheim and he have 2260RA, Stefan sayd that this instrument have too much "american" sound and it is too big for F tuba and even that he have rotary he have to change this instrument for other more "germany"

BUMP for Pistons(or try to find other F tuba with low register like 2250 have) :tuba: :tuba: :tuba: :tuba: :tuba:

Sorry for my gramma, i hope u understand me ^^

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:18 am
by TheTuba
besson900 wrote:Most of You guys are living in USA but i think You dont know how it looks like i Europe

Im from Poland and here doesnt matter what kind of Tuba You are playing , piston or rotary. When we have auditions You can meet piston and rotary players, if You are playing good it doesnt matter what kind of instrument You have. From 4-5 years i see that rotary players(99% B&S) are switching into the piston(99% MW 2250) and if i had the money i would buy 2250 too. Low register and legatos or slurs sounds better on piston i think and thats the reason.

In Germany or Austria NOBODY is playing piston tubas or CC flat tubas, if you have one of those instruments You can be 100% sure that You will dont get this job there. If You are student You have to switch it for B&S of traditional sound MElton like 4460. My friend last year joined to Stefan Heimann class in Mannheim and he have 2260RA, Stefan sayd that this instrument have too much "american" sound and it is too big for F tuba and even that he have rotary he have to change this instrument for other more "germany"

BUMP for Pistons(or try to find other F tuba with low register like 2250 have) :tuba: :tuba: :tuba: :tuba: :tuba:

Sorry for my gramma, i hope u understand me ^^
Understand perfectly, and thanks for the current audition theme over in europe!

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:28 am
by pjv
A M/W piston F tuba. Would you please be more specific. The 45slp, the larger 2250 and Titan, or the smaller 2182?


I've tried several and was very impressed. Also with the quality of their triggers. As far as I know the 45 was originality designed for the US market, but this is an old model and times are changing rapidly.

I've tried Gronitz. Lovely sound and intonation.

I'd rather they all had 6 valves.

ps. I don't play in an orchestra and use the F for brass quintet and often in recordings.
pps. I tried a Wessex Berg and it had amazing intonation (and only 5 valves!). Unfortunately it also had very noisy valves. I'm assuming the shop I tried it at had severely neglected the necessary maintenance.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:30 am
by Bnich93
If the only way to get the job is to sound exactly like they expect you to sound but with better technique and musicality, then why would I desire to get rid of my Swiss copy of an American oversized band tuba which was chopped from BBb to CC?

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:16 pm
by pjv
I'm still curious which MW tuba you played

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:26 pm
by Donn
It isn't like I'm in the market for any F tuba, but curious about the acoustic design conversation ... I find a couple Miraphone Fs at hornguys - Petruschka with pistons, and Firebird with rotors - and the same 19.6mm valve bore! So I guess they might call for some heroism, though a casual scan of comments doesn't turn up anything of that nature, but in any case maybe a good piston/rotor comparison case.

But what I wanted to point out, is that the Petrushka's leadpipe is maybe a foot closer to the mouthpiece, so there's that much more potentially conical bore after the valves - and on the other hand, that last valve bore is 20.4mm, where the Firebird's exit bore is 21.2.

So ... search me, no idea how to predict the outcome from this, but just thought it would be fun to bring on more specifics to work with as you settle down to hash that out.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:57 pm
by Donn
I can't really comment on modern saxophone design. Once, for a 20 seconds or so, I tried out someone's bari, Taiwanese I think, and it felt awfully feeble to me, but hard to draw any general conclusions from that. I believe my King Zephyr bari has the largest bell ever known to have appeared on a low Bb bari, and I believe the low end on that sax benefits from that. I also have a couple tenors that may illustrate design trends - an early, mid '30s King Zephyr, and a mid '50s Martin Indiana. In I think the late '30s, HN White changed the Zephyr design, and like the similar Super 20 those are prized by players who are into the modern sax sound typified by Selmer (Paris) horns, which is practically everyone. My Zephyr pre-dates that change; I like it a lot - which is good because no one else is going to really want it. The Martin is more of the modern thing, being more like 60 years old rather than 80, and it's good too, but I play the King. Woodwinds in general don't support dimensional experimentation as well, so changes have to be pretty subtle, and most players don't have the means to measure them.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:14 pm
by Donn
I'm guessing this is 99% about the tenor saxophone. For the bari, I've read complaints that modern baris (excuse the language, but ...) lack "balls." I wonder if bass tuba players go to larger bore piston tubas for a similar reason, in part?

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 am
by Donn
Yeah, ain't it the truth - and same with the tuba mouthpieces. I haven't played one of those big Holton mouthpieces, but the Conn 1 was sure a "Revelation"! Big! Fat! Don't know if there's anything comparable for bass tuba, or what that would exactly mean. Conn 3 has the big throat and conical cup, but not the depth, and shallow X conical = small volume. Maybe that's OK.

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:08 am
by EMC
I cant say ive played a piston F tuba that really gave me a sense i was playing an F tuba, like someone stated earlier it feels almost like playing a small tight CC tuba which personally ive never really liked, now I am a Rotor guy, let that be known up front, and im not going to act like these new piston f tubas arent good tubas, sure they are, but I do tend to believe that the whole point of busting out the F tuba should be for more than just just playing high notes a bit easier, There should be a definitive timbre and sonic difference, which is what i find more in the older rotor F tubas. Instead of what these huge piston F tubas seem to be trying to go for which is like as much of a Contrabass tuba they can fit in a bass tuba. Probably an unpopular opinion but I think some modern F tubas are just not very good. I havent played anything very new that really captivated me as much as many older f tubas have. That being said, Allessandros new F tuba is freaking great and deserves more praise than its gotten :tuba:

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:10 am
by EMC
J.c. Sherman wrote:Alive and well! I use a YFB-621 as my F... not perfect for anything, but can do anything!

(Would still like and Alex F in the arsenal...)

J.c.S.

If you really are interested in an Alex F mine is up for sale at the moment :tuba:

Re: Whats the ruling on piston F tubas?

Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:16 am
by pjv
I wonder what the audience hears when they hear an F tuba.
Would they hear the difference between a B&S Symphonie and a Kanstul 90?

People with a discriminatory ear might notice it up close, but in the hall? On a recording? Amplified?

We talk about the German sound (even the Germans talk about it). Common practice in German orchestras is to use the F for the difficult high stuff then they go back to BBb for the meat and potatoes work.

If it’s true that the unique timbre of a German F is most prominent in the lower register, then in my opinion the “average” German listener won’t even get a chance to hear that German F sound because the German orchestra players avoid playing them down low.
Yes a lot of generalizations.
A tuba player should just play on whatever he’s into instead of working themselves into a frenzy about how it’s “supposed” to be. (Something which I feel only becomes relevant when other players also join in on the “authentic instrument game”).
Orchestras are big and loud nowadays. There’s nothing dishonorable in wanting a F that makes the players work easier in all registers.

If I understand the OP correctly, he played on a MW F that played quite admirably. Which model F tuba did you play, Bloke?