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No, I don't think you've missed it. However, isn't there a video of a Spanish(?) player testing a 197 and Nirschl York side by side. Maybe someone could talk him into posting here?

I've also caught some opinions from other players... but not direct pro experience as you are looking for. I'll be curious to hear more too... because the Fafner seems to be far more popular.

According the the price list, 197/2 and 195/2 are comparable in price, at least in euro.

I played both last month - both are really outstanding instruments. Interestingly, the Fafner looks bigger (at least in terms of bottom bow and bell), but had considerably more overtones (brightness or color) in the sound when I played it. Intonation and response on both were outstanding.

Strongly considering getting one of these next year.

Bin, how did it compare to the Hirsbrunner Kaiser you own?

I strongly considered a Fafner, but decided against it. Just too stubborn to stay in CC.

It’s hard to compare exactly. I would say both the Meinl horns are easier to play - more consistent, and more predictable. All this is subjective of course, but I think the Hirsbrunner sound has the density and core of the 197, but a bit of the color of the Fafner.

Of the three, the Hirsbrunner requires the most attention when playing down low, but when you are dialed in, the result is outrageous.

Between the HB7 poster here and the used Fafner at Baltimore
Brass, there are a couple of great options for kaiser BBb tubas here in the states. You’d get 90% of the instrument as compared to ordering a new handmade Meinl, at a third the price. And thewe could be in your hands next week!

Here is the Video of Javier Castaño Medina.
https://youtu.be/C9ZzSPOMNcU" target="_blank" target="_blank
He has a lot of Videos more!
The MW 197 based on an Bohland and Fuchs Kaiser Tuba. For me one of the best Bb tubas ever made... they are very rar. I have one and the sound is amazing!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wv4wowulrewuf ... 6.jpg?dl=0" target="_blank" target="_blank

bort wrote: I strongly considered a Fafner, but decided against it. Just too stubborn to stay in CC.

The regular 195 Fafner seems to be more common than the 195/2 handmade version, both in the US and Europe. I don't know if this is purely the result of the higher price point for the 195/2 or other factors. The few comments I've seen about the 195/2 is that it offers more overtones and a considerably richer sound than the standard 195.

Yes you are right. The ,,handmade version,, is easyer to play. The sound is a also very dark but more in focus. There is a third version. Made by Paul Halwax. Search him on FB and you see this version on his profile picture.

As fancy as a tuba can be, it's still just part plumbing, part HVAC ductwork. I guess that's why they top out at a mere $24k, and not 10-100x that as do the other instruments.

At least in the old Melton showroom it was easy job to decide which I liked more handmade Fafner or 197. It was awesome instrument. On my first trip there I had chance to test couple Nirschl C tubas and luckily I wasn't looking for C, would have been impossible to choose.

Still would be great to have all those big Bb tubas in same room and these days there are even more possibilities.

Was also hard choice with 197 and Nirschl Bb but I'm starting to be extremely satisfied with my pick. Alas, haven't tried 197 now when I have some clue of Bb tuba playing.

Yeah, I agree the M-W 197 BBb sounds amazing from the recordings and live performances I've heard; particularly from that gentleman who plays in the Berlin Phil!
Also, there were some amazing videos of W. Hilgers on an original refurbished B&F Kaiser BBb that the M-W 197 BBb was based on. But most all of those vids were removed from YT

Warning, strong opinions below...............

As far as 6/4 York-style tubas go, IMO, most tuba players these days actually play them too 'dark'. When I go back and listen to recordings of Arnold Jacobs on the York 6/4, or Chester Schmitz on his Yorkbrunner, I hear much more color and sweetness in tone compared to many of today's players.

As for wanting more or brighter overtones in a dark-natured large contrabass tuba; --> shallow bowl mpc. Yep More overtones can actually 'warm up' a too-dark tuba

A friend of mine has a fine 5V Rudi Meinl BBb and a MW197/2 as a work horn. He studied with Hilgers so when he had the chance to get a work horn he chose the 197. His opinion is that the 197 is a fantastic tuba, but you need to be playing it every day to keep up with it. For someone who plays C tuba and Bb tuba at times he suggested that the Rudi is much easier to play.

Another friend now has that job (and therefore the 197) and he also has his own fine Rudi BBb. The 197 sits almost unused for the above reason. YMMV