Performance vs. Education

[james]

Wow, I'm actually finding posts on tubenet worth replying to. I'm thinking the old simple saying "Jack of all Trades, Master of None".

[james]

[james]

maybe

[MikeMason]

As a road rep. who has helped recruit and "break in" many new band directors, i too have an opinion.Bloke's suggestions are for the "ideal world".The reality is, there are more jobs than there are directors in my area-ANY KIND OF DIRECTOR.There are schools using retired directors half a day,using non-music ed or non-degree of any kind, or just swapping fired directors from one part of the state to another.I think Bloke fails to take into account the value in persuing an endeavor at a high level.Tenacity,passion,force of will,and plain ole perserverance will serve a new director as well,or better than knowing a few more alternate fingerings.Controlling a class,conveying a sense of enthusiasm,and laser focus on a common goal are all critical skills.Add the ability to hear wrong notes and the refusal to accept them to the list.I'm not kidding. Band directors looking for a job and willing to locate in south/central Alabama-email me...

[MikeMason]

Altruism is the one motive i question the most A good band director is always the best thing for the kids,the school, and for sales.Principals call me every year looking for applicants who haven't been convicted of a crime.Most new grads from the colleges in my area go to Georgia,where the pay is better.Most directors retire as soon as possible and go to Georgia or a private school to "double dip". so, yes, it's a big problem in Alabama...

[james]

maybe not

[james]

I'm just glad we are back to coming up with interesting topics to read on this board.

[ahowle]

Why can't everyone just strive for their top level of playing instead of saying, "Oh I am here to learn to teach not play"?

That's a very good point, and is true in many cases.

[james]

cool

[MartyNeilan]

Recruiting future band directors and then drilling them for four years to play a forty-five minute recital on one instrument, and studying each of the other instruments for (dividing a semester of "woodwind class" or "brass class" into segments) approximately one month per instrument is a terrific plan!

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that ALREADY part of virtually every music ed degree? (Along with lots of piano proficiency, conducting, music history, x number of ensembles, student teaching, and the same academics as everyone else.)

Been there, done that, got the paper, got the awards and honors (useless) now trying to get the job.

[james]

One year and quit, huh? I guess that's the old "college try". How admirable. That doesn't sound like someone with a strong passion to change things as you try to front in these few posts. Sounds like someone who took an easier road...."those who can't", maybe? Yes, there is validity to discovering you are in the wrong field and leaving. Actually, quite admirable if done in the right way. However, that should be your argument and NOT that there were problems you never EARNESTLY tried to fix and are so passionately complaining about later. ( I hardly consider one year in a job "giving it a chance to make things better")

Bloke, you sit on your podium and preach at us about how you have all the solutions to how OTHERS should fix a poorly run educational system.
If you feel the educational system is flawed, fine. Advise kids not to go to college because it has flaws and it is a shelter from the real world. I would have more respect for that than complaining (from a very safe and sheltered distance) about how it's flawed and how if you were king it would be perfect.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

Wow, I made a resolution to listen more and talk less (hardly any post's since jan 1st), and I guess I feel strongly enough to speak. I agree with Bloke 100%, as I usually do. My 2 best friends from college both teach High School in Connecticut. I occasionally coach their students, and talk shop. It amazes me what they do and don't do. A list of what they do (not nearly complete) would include: last minute instrument repair, breaking up fights in the hallways, going to meetings, running meetings of their staff (at least 20 for marching band), going to town functions, designing marching band shows, planning band competitions, planning band trips, waiting for parents who are late picking up their kids, opening the building for color guard practice, and I know they run band rehearsals also, but I'm not sure when. It seems to me a minor in buisness administration would be handy for a would be high school band director. Piano is a great sing along instrument for elementary school kids as opposed to say, the tuba. Conducting, oh yeah, they have guest soloist's in their bands so the kids can get really inspired when they hear somebody play. In case you're thinking these guy's weren't players, one of these guy's played gigs 4-5 nights a week while we were in school, many of them with me, when I started getting road gigs he realized that he was a "homebody" and as exciting as it sounded he wasn't going to do that. I'm sure he would have a career playing if he wanted it but he didn't want to travel, now he plays music at home with his kids and still probably plays 100 gigs a year. If a person loves their instrument they will play it, I'm sure many people on this board have jobs unrelated to playing and still find the time to play, no different for a band director. Peace. ASG

[james]

not his exsistence....his COMPLAINING. I know Joe is an older and well-respected person living in the real world with a very respectable job that serves many people. I myself respect him. However, he has a history of making outrageous life changing suggestions with a VERY egotistical tone just to stir the pot. Things he doesn't know about NEARLY as well as repairing/building/restoring instruments. I wish he aided the tuba community with repair related advice more than inciting flames. That would actually be USED in humble gratitude. I would humbly use the advice. I'm just embarassed I fell for his antogonizing post. First time I've actually bitten on one his flame-hopeful posts after passing on so many others that tempted me. I really think he gets off on it though.

[MikeMason]

it's not necessary to agree with Bloke's posts to appreciate them.Posts that provoke thought can be dangerous to your ignorance...

[james]

Ha!! Very funny

[TexTuba]

In regards to the whole learning every instrument: Don't they do this at VanderCook? This what I had once heard in passing and was wondering if anyone could verify this. Thank you!!

Ralph

[Tom Mason]

This is what I get for missing a few days for vacation...........

Has anyone thought of the concept that you are not really beginning a new instrument every time you pick up one if you follow Joe's theory?

To be a true beginner, you would have to relearn to read music as well as all of the concepts used to play an instrument. If you are seriously going into an undergraduate degree program as either an education or performance major, you should be able to use common tendancies toward each instrument played.

1. Single reed players share some tendancies within the realm of playing. Double reed players share some common traits as well. Flute playing usually takes a reverse course of embouchure.

2. Brass playing shares common traits as well.

3. Percussion playing involves common stickings.

4. String instruments....... Well, you would have to learn some more techniques........

5. Breathing practices as well as practice routines have common points.

The point is that there are some common traits that are shared within all of the instruments. You are not having to learn everything from scratch. Latch on to the similarities.

By the way, some of us who teach can also play. Not to anyone in particular, but there are a lot of playing situations that you can list that some of us teachers (as well as repair professionals) can say "been there, done that".

Tom Mason

[windshieldbug]

...Hey, I know some extremely high-profile professional symphony orchestra conductors who could in no way "win" a job on their "own 'major' " instrument in the backs of the appropriate sections in their own orchestras...I suppose they can't possibly be "musically expressive" enough to execute their assigned duties

And I recall a bunch who weren't (oh, I know, "Bitter, party of one, your table is now ready... ")

[TexTuba]

Hmm...what to put when just about everything has been put. I think it's important to learn every instrument you are going to teach. I'm not saying be great on every horn but be competent. One should know how to get a decent sound and learn the fingerings AND alternate fingerings on the different horns. You can not teach what you do not know. Just like there was a discussion a while back about the difference between "tubists" and "tuba players", what you can do in the band hall separates the TEACHERS from the BAND DIRECTORS. Any fool can wave a baton and mash down some fingerings, but a true teacher will show their students how to play their horn. End obscure, incoherent rant.

Ralph

[TMurphy]

<img src="http://tinypic.com/6h3rdy.jpg">

No relevant information to the thread, but the pic reminded me of how truly excited I am to be going to see Monty Python's Spamalot on Friday in NY.