tuba main slide trigger bigotry

[windshieldbug]

Fred Marzan got this 40-some years ago...

[ckalaher1]

It would seem that a two-way trigger-one that did in fact return an MTS to "home"-would be a pretty good addition to many tubas. I've thought about one in the past, but am always kind of scared that it would A)change the resonance of the instrument, and B)make it impossible to resell should the need arise.

[proam]

I first saw a Jack Holland “pitch finder” on a trumpet in the late 70’s. It allowed +/- adjustment of the main tuning slide and used springs to return it to home.

I never understood why they were not more popular or even standard equipment. I have since read that some players believe that having the main slide loose enough to move that easily negatively affected the horn’s playability.

[JasonEuphonium]

I can say that triggers on euphonium undoubtedly have a noticeable effect on the sound.


They make me sound BETTER because I don't have to contort my entire embouchure in an attempt to lip down an F4 by 35 cents...

[Aglenntuba]

I kind of want a trigger like this on my JP F tuba. Not for any pitch reason. But because the main slide keeps sliding out in this 110 degree Texas weather

[roweenie]

Generally speaking, it's much more work to put a MTS perfectly in parallel - often times, you are dealing with valvesets and branches/doglegs that are not in alignment with each other.

Also, partly because of this, I think this is a low priority to manufacturers, compared to the "fine tuning" top slides. In point of fact, I was under the impression that it was better for them to be a little off - I've made up MTS's that were so parallel that they would slide down while I was playing......

[smitwill1]

If you DO make this modification, please keep track of the expenses--I think that it could be a valuable aftermarket feature, if the linkages are "generic" enough to be used on a number of current model instruments. Although, given the delicate issue of alignment you may not want to wade into that morass... Perhaps you could sell the design and/or parts?

[happyroman]

Ron Bishop had a two-way rod attached to the tuning slide of his Alex. He could push or pull it and it was spring loaded to return to the "home" position.

[ElementalTuba]

Does anyone know of an "add-on" package with linkage and lever that can be added to a 3+1 configuration tuba?

[DouglasJB]

I'd like to put one on my Eb, but it's to mainly help on the Low F (2345 pull 4) or (1345 push 4). And possibly the 24 combination (depending on trigger location)

[anotherjtm2]

Truth be told, some of the most stable and easiest-to-play-in-tune tubas are tubas that feature a flat 5th partial (Bb tuba: open D, Db // C tuba: open E/Eb). Wouldn't it be nice (were some mechanism well-designed) to simply push-or-pull a lever (moving a SLIDE - just as with moving the #1 or #3 slide) for those pitches, rather than playing them with extra valves or distorting the air speed upward or the mouth-shape smaller ?

Not ashamed to admit I'd like this, and the main tuning slide almost moves freely enough to do it.

Strangely, my C tuba has some flat 5th partials, but E and Eb sound fine. It's D (slightly) and Db (more) that show the problem. D is barely flat and lippable; I play Db 1-2-3 when it's not too inconvenient.

I'm guessing that this is related to the effect on my Bb 186 with Yamaha bell where the shorter bell requires a longer main tuning slide, and the open 5th partial is much less flat than it is with the recording bell and normal tuning slide. Its tuning must suffer in some other way, as a trade off, but I haven't noticed how.

[Patrase]

I remember seeing the 2165 owned by Steve Rosse. It had a main tuning slide kicker. But it used the palm/wrist to move it. Am guessing it was factory done, but don’t know for sure

[anotherjtm2]

... on my Bb 186 with Yamaha bell ... the shorter bell requires a longer main tuning slide, and the open 5th partial is much less flat than it is with the recording bell and normal tuning slide. Its tuning must suffer in some other way, as a trade off, but I haven't noticed how.

I put the recording bell on the 186, paid a little more attention, and found the tradeoff: D and Db are flat, as expected, but notes above G at the top of the staff are better with the recording bell. They lean a little flat with the slightly-too-short upright bell.

[Worth]

I kind of want a trigger like this on my JP F tuba. Not for any pitch reason. But because the main slide keeps sliding out in this 110 degree Texas weather

' no attempt, here, to try to wallpaper over any negative issues with JP instruments (as I'm a seller of them), but that sounds to me like some really nice main slide alignment.

My own instrument (first post) that may end up with a gadget also features really nice (factory) main slide alignment, and (yes) tends to slide out, if I do not keep my eye on it.

Depending on the ensemble, although not at it's limits the W900 can require a pretty long MTS pull so I had a similar sliding out issue. This was easily and cheaply solved with a thin, long velcro piece secured in a loop around the brace on the slide and the brace on the proximal tubing.

[Matt G]

I always dug the 4th valve slide rig on those old King baritones. Made putting low Eb and D in tune an easy deal.

I’ve always thought this to be a good idea, but recognize that there is a cost associated. Possibly some of the “marketing” (*flawless intonation* - blech) precludes engineering and innovation since putting a proper tuning mechanism would be seen as an admittance that the tuba has some intonation issues (they all do).

I don’t think a MTS would put me off from buying a tuba.

[timayer]

I've never played a York-copy-type tuba, so I haven't had to spend a ton of time manipulating first valve slides. Luckily for me, the first valve has never been a huge problem on any horn I've owned.

My horns have always needed finagling in some way, but they have had mechanisms to handle their specific tendencies (I can't take credit for them, I bought them this way, so someone else was able to figure out the tendencies and the work-arounds). Specifically, I have had:

1. Second valve kicker on my PT6.
2. MTS pull/push rod on my Rudy 5/4. This one was great, because you could remove it as needed, so I only used it when the piece called for notes in a way that required it.

Because of my experience with each, any sort of slide tuning device not only isn't a turn-off for me, but it would be a bonus for me. Presumably, if done by a competent technician for a competent player, it's for the specific instrument and fixes a specific problem and makes the horn more playable. Getting a horn that I knew I could play the E open and Eb 2nd valve without lipping? That would be GREAT.

[Michael Grant]

About 20 years ago I had a 3/4 Rudy CC that needed a slide kicker. I took it to Dick Akright in Oakland. He came up with a very cool two directional push pull slide that went back into place when you let it go. I wish I had a picture of it. It was pretty amazing workmanship.

J Kevin Powers in Monroe, Michigan (formerly with Custom Music. Might still be, not sure) had designed and built a similar device that he put on numerous euphoniums and probably some tubas as well.

On a related subject: I saw Carol Jantsch give a recital at the University of Michigan a while back (after she had won the Phili spot). She did the entire recital by memory and if I recall, standing up. She was playing her Yamaha F. Afterwards, my two friends, both professionally trained tubist from UM, and I discussed the recital. I asked how they thought her intonation was. They said “spot on” and I agreed. Then I asked if they had noticed that she did not pull a single slide the entire recital? They had. We discussed how the three of us are always pulling slides. It gave us plenty to consider.

[windshieldbug]

A person as accomplished as she pulls for resonance, NOT intonation!

[timothy42b]

There actually are people who misinterpret that quote and don't understand that "vibrating into an instrument that is precisely the correct length to produce a frequency increases the resonance of that frequency", aren't there?

It occurs to me that there might be more than one frequency that matches the precise length.

The natural overtones of a horn (NOT of a note) don't have a simple relationship - they vary somewhat due to bends, changes of diameter, spit valves, etc. On some horns it's small, others I think it can be a lot.

The natural overtones of a note do have a simple relationship. So at least in theory you can input the precise frequency for the fundamental at that note, or for a selected overtone that matches the length of the instrument.

[peterbas]

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