Getting patina on a new raw brass instrument

[J.Harris]

Alright, this is going to be an odd question. I purchased a new Eastman Eb EBE853 in raw brass from Matt Walters @ Dillons. I've had it for about a month now and it's still pretty darn shiny. I ordered it in raw brass so I could get that nice antique-looking patina on the thing. Anyone know how long this might take naturally and/or does anyone know how to artificially speed up the process without causing any undue damage? Thanks TNFJ for any input.

P.S. I have to give kudos to Matt for ridiculously good customer service and for tweaking this instrument in. He even cut down the 3rd valve slide for me for improved intonation and refused to charge me for it. That's crazy good service. Matt's become my got to guy for new instrument purchases. I hope Mr. Dillon realizes what an incredible asset he has in Matt.

[Donn]

If you have any liquid dish detergent around, check the ingredients for "sodium bisulfite". If you have to make a trip to the grocery store, look for Palmolive, but others may have it as well. The rest is up to you - I have no idea if you dilute it, if it takes any technique to get an even "tan", etc. but from what I read, if no visible results that day, then you aren't doing it right.

[Snake Charmer]

The best thing I can think of is being patient. It is just like new blue jeans. The nicest look they have after wearing it for years, not after sanding or acid treatment. My Wessex ophicleide in raw brass has still some really shiny areas, but now starts to look "worn-in". After three years playing...

[Donn]

Maybe it depends on what you're looking for. Occasionally I see a picture of an old tuba that has turned a rather cheerful orange brown color, fully tarnished to level that isn't going to happen by waiting for the rest of my natural life. That raises enough questions that I guess I may have to conduct some experiments on one of my own tubas. Does the hue depend on original brass color, so you get that warm brown only if you start with "rose" brass? Does the heavy tarnish layer protect against spot corrosion? Will it have a darker tone? (ha ha.)

[bigtubby]

I just tried liver of sulfur for the first time, attempting to match an existing very old brown-ish patina. I let it go pretty dark and it worked well but has a distinctly magenta cast. I'm going to let it "rest" for a month or so to see if the color settles down.

What I used was a gel that is supposed to be more stable than liquids and handier than chunk.
http://a.co/86Yqe2b

[Donn]

I just tried liver of sulfur for the first time, attempting to match an existing very old brown-ish patina.

Match between different parts of the same tuba, or adjacent locations on the same part? I'd be very interested to hear if you can polish a spot off for whatever reason, and then "seamlessly" restore the finish there.

As for "just waiting" ... maybe you could show a picture of that little tournister-like tuba, or something, as an example. I'm not going to live that long, seriously. Somewhat like an anodized coating, doesn't look like bare metal any more at all.

[Matt Good]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_of_sulfur

My dad taught art in public schools for 40 years. There was one summer he was working on a copper sculpture. At the end of the project, he brushed liquid liver of sulfur on it for a finish and then applied some steel wool to highlight some areas before applying a clear coat. I was only 8 at the time but man, the fumes from that stuff were overwhelming out in our garage. I would think twice about using it.

Back to the original post: just play the tuba for a few months and a nice patina will appear. Be patient.

[Donn]

I'm not going to live that long, seriously.

ok

Neither are you, for that matter.

[Donn]

Happened across this nice compilation of processes: Patination with Non-toxic Solutions. Liver of sulphur reports magenta/blue for treatment of copper, but not for brass. I'd be interested to know more about the chemistry - I assume the sulfite treatments leave some kind of sulfur salts of copper & zinc, but no idea what would happen with vinegar. While looking for that I found that people use citric acid to clean brass, and some of them believe it "passivates" brass, preventing tarnish (I think probably not.)

[bort]

Whatever you do, keep the tuba out of the case.

[Wyvern]

Leave the tuba by gas fire, or any open fire and it will soon tarnish

[bort]

On the flip side, is there an easy way to remove the patina?

Besides Brasso and elbow grease?

[Donn]

I happened on a squeeze bottle of "Original" Palmolive dishwashing liquid in the hardware store (?), and felt that a couple bucks wasn't too big a price for the advancement of science.

Before:


After:


Some technique is apparently required, to get an even finish. This was a couple of treatments, over a day or so, with a "poultice" of wet paper towel and newspaper. There really isn't anything about this I like, so I'm not going to explore it any further. The color is a mix of some of the usual kind of greenish oxidation, and some blacker stuff with a blue-green sheen.

The fragrance is a bit nasty, too, and hard to wash out. I used a brush to apply 2nd and subsequent treatments.

[Donn]

On the flip side, is there an easy way to remove the patina?

Besides Brasso and elbow grease?

Brasso might not be the ideal stuff, maybe a little too abrasive for best results. I use Maas metal polish, there's probably plenty of similar quality products. Takes some time.