Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

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Charlie C Chowder
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Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Charlie C Chowder »

I have been learning to "Jam With The Blues" this summer. With a class on Wednesday, then a jam at a local truck stop on Sunday. I was told that they had a lot of guitars, so I took my tuba, soprano and tenor saxophones and a flute. Last jam night I included my Roland Aerophone for fun. I also added a five string G&L Tribute bass guitar to my collection of toys.
I want to add an upright or a fretless bass to my collection, but I thought I would ask you guys who are in the trenches on what you think. The biggest problem is space, other wise I would just get one of each. I am an old fart and will probably only stand on the outside of the trenches looking in. But I love to just play on my own anyway. I need to buy a Loopper.

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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by WC8KCY »

I have both electric and double basses, and will tell you this: If you're looking to have some fun at jam sessions and coffee house/pub open mic nights, you'll get a ton more invites to upcoming sessions if you show up with a double bass.

In fact, my electric setup hasn't been out to a gig or jam since I got a double bass around ten years ago.

For certain genres of music, notably jazz and bluegrass, the electric just isn't a complete or desirable substitute for a the real thing--a double bass.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Donn »

Yeah, it's honestly less about what you can do, and more about essentially what people see. There is a very practical matter of what people can hear, though - unless you're playing with a small unamplified string band, most players will want some kind of amplification, and at that point if either electric or upright is equally acceptable, then the electric will be much more practical. You may be able to finesse the point with an electric that fits the general style better - maybe a nice hollow body, or could be the solid body thing mentioned above, but don't expect that to make a lot of difference.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by WC8KCY »

Donn wrote:Yeah, it's honestly less about what you can do, and more about essentially what people see. There is a very practical matter of what people can hear, though - unless you're playing with a small unamplified string band, most players will want some kind of amplification, and at that point if either electric or upright is equally acceptable, then the electric will be much more practical. You may be able to finesse the point with an electric that fits the general style better - maybe a nice hollow body, or could be the solid body thing mentioned above, but don't expect that to make a lot of difference.
I stealthily use a compact Jay Turser GA-30B 1x10 bass combo amp when more oomph is needed on double bass. A very simple setup will do the job on double bass, since it does not have to do much in terms of signal processing or tone shaping.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Donn »

WC8KCY wrote: I stealthily use a compact Jay Turser GA-30B 1x10 bass combo amp when more oomph is needed on double bass. A very simple setup will do the job on double bass, since it does not have to do much in terms of signal processing or tone shaping.
I haven't noticed that anyone minds whether there's amplification, as long as you're playing the right shaped thing. The hard part is the pickups, mics etc. In bloke's interesting picture above, I believe I have one of those things that fits into the bridge hips, but the magnetic pickup is a new one on me. If that really works ... oh rats, I'm using gut strings! never mind. Well, maybe I could wrap wire around them right over the pickups.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by BrassedOn »

I think a lot of us have enjoyed getting new gear and exploring our musical wants and voices, and some continue to, and certainly there is no age limit. There is plenty to learn and do on an electric bass and the blues. And if there is an amp to plug into, one less thing to drag in and out. And just starting with the physicality, an upright bass or EUB are another level of commitment and challenge. And as others have said, fretless anything has its "joys". (Even fretless brass, like trombone.) And as others have said, there are some genre's where one of these might be the "right" axe.

But here's a different question:
What if your goal were to get off the sidelines and be a welcome participant in the jam, or someday be part of a group? Then I think adding gear might not be the priority. Here are some other ways to think about it, or get asked back to play.
  • 1. At some point, regardless of others, play the instrument that you are driven or inspired to play.
    2. Be good at whatever you do. If you kill it on bones, you'll get asked back. If you kill it on flute, you'll be asked back. There could be a dozen guitars, but if you kill it on guitar, you'll be asked back.
    3. Learn the tunes, know standard keys and catch the key when it's not standard, know the feel.
    4. Focus. On the jam bandstand, I'm not sure if anyone is excited about someone who brings multiple kinds of instruments. Maybe pick a couple and refer to #1.
    5. Do vocals. If you can sing heads to standard tunes, know your keys, know how they end, and can tell the drummer the feel, that adds a lot to your offerings. Vocal and bass. Vocal and harp. Vocal and sax. Etc.
    6. If you're playing in the rhythm section, hold it down, hold it together.
    7. If you're soloing at a jam, say it in a few courses not 20. To leave time for others. And leave "practicing" for home.
Recently I was shopping electric basses, checking out the current offerings and prices, considering 5-string and what that might add to my playing. None of the instruments under $2000 played as well as my regular axe, an old Fender P, but clearly it needs a set up. Then I realized, I'd spent 10 or 20 hours dreaming, and I could have used that shedding, listening, transcribing, or adjusting my neck and nut. Just some thoughts.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Donn »

bloke wrote: My old 5-string Kay "Chubby Jackson" is gone, so (though I rarely play any sort of "bass" on gigs anymore) I tend to use my Korean hollow body bass guitar with round wound strings on jazz combo gigs.
I'm rather fond of my Korean hollow body bass guitar, though I can't imagine putting round wound on it, flat wound only for me. Mine is "medium" scale - odd length, but with the archtop bridge-to-tailpiece extra part, long scale strings are the right length, and (I think this makes sense) the heaviest gauge thereof. Medium is the "just right" scale that gives you a good stable tone on the E string but doesn't require the hands of an acromegalic giant. The body is a true acoustic thing - only just barely, but it does put out bass tone that can be heard a couple feet away - so I'd be in trouble in a loud show, where the body would by all accounts tend to pick up other instruments, feedback etc.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Three Valves »

Fretless electric bass guitars appear much cooler than they actually are/are not.

Oh, and it flat wounds or no wounds!! :tuba:
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by pecktime »

So much good advice in this thread. If you do get a double bass- a few lessons on arco amd pizz technique will prevent injury in the future, and enable you to see how to pull a good sound out of the bass.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by MackBrass »

I just started teaching myself cello about a month ago and aside the fact that i dont have dexterity in my left hand (and i am left handed) the hardest thing to learn are proper finger positions especially without the guides of a fret to tell you where they go. Since I couldn't pic a good cello from a bad one I decided, after a ton of research to buy an electric cello. Still had to upgrade the strings, bow and tailpiece but the electric option for now seemed to be a wise choice. After a week or so I did add some tape markers for some positions to keep me honest. Thought about going with a bass but after playing tuba for so long i decided i wanted to play more than just a bass line and have always admired the voice of cello.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by swillafew »

Upright is about 100x better for many styles. Electric is

1. cheaper
2. portable
3. easy
4. rugged
5. perfect for the most popular styles.
6. can be learned in a fraction of the time
7. will pay for itself in one or two nights.

Spend 70 percent or more of the the budget on the amplification, and in particular the speaker. It takes more gigs to pay for those. I played many jobs with a 200 dollar bass though a simple amp and an 800 dollar speaker. I put electrician's tape over the name on the headstock.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Charlie C Chowder »

I have been playing the cello for a number of years, so the idea of fretless is not new to me. I tested a fretless guitar with my eyes closed to see if I could play in tune, worked. I loved playing my nephews upright bass when I was visiting for a month. I did not have access to his bow. As for the cello, it was the "Hairy Stick" that caused me the most problem. Switching from guitar fourths to cello fifths was easy, and my ear is very good so the lack of frets was not a problem. My late teacher loved my cello's sound, and an upgrade from a fiberglass bow to a good permobuco one and learning how to use it helped a lot. I played a lot of long tones on open strings.
I think that your advice has helped me to go with the upright first. Lessons will be a must as it's bow is so different. I play the cello with a group of people who play the Native American Flute. It is usually just adds to the drum.
As to reading music, I can but I suck at sight reading. So I go to a sighting group of silver flute players. So Jamming with the blues has been great as there is no music to read. Just a Beat to keep, a Key to play in, (and transpose for the saxes), and a chance to play an adlibbed solo when my turn come. And of course BS.

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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Donn »

Charlie C Chowder wrote:I think that your advice has helped me to go with the upright first. Lessons will be a must as it's bow is so different.
If you're talking about the over vs. under hand position ... the unusual upside down hand position, and the bow with the larger frog that goes with it - that isn't by any means universal. Lots of players use an overhand bow just like the other strings, though of course heavier. Of course it really reduces the cost of the outfit, and the amount of skills you have to learn, if you just don't get a bow.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by groth »

Upright only lends itself to certain genres of music, and fretless bass guitar as well. I've had pretty much every band leader always ask for the bass guitar over an upright (unless Swing or Dixieland Jazz). If you're not a front man, no one probably even cares if the bassist occasionally looks down at his fretboard (just don't be glued to it). Google Tony Franklin from WhiteSnake/Blue Murder, he's one of the only fretless Heavy Rock players out there and he makes it look too easy. I prefer fretless, but currently have an old P-Bass with LaBella flats on it to get that Motown sound.
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Re: Up right string bass, or Fretless bass guitar?

Post by Donn »

Doc wrote:Or if your budget is bigger, get an NS NXT 4 string.
It looks like this is ordinary 3/4 upright scale, same strings as for upright bass?
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