Stuck at High F

[Cobra1502]

Thanks for the replies. I have had some small break throughs. I can now hit high Gb G AB and A. Note: to avoid another survey this is the A above the high F above the staff.

These notes are not good and not consistent - yet. I have tried a little of what everyone has advised over the past couple days. What seemed to work for me was giving myself permission method from Bloke and a fast tongue strike to get the vibration going (like spitting something off tip of tongue that is stuck) from other forums that were referenced. I am going to try mouthpiece buzz that was recently posted. Keep the ideas coming.

Any ideas as to why both Eb and BBb range limit is the same note? Would have thought I would get a few more semitones on Eb.

[Mark]

A wildly-revered player (who occasionally posts on this site) admitted to me years ago (in a lesson) that they really only work to maintain a clear/resonant range to C5, because the highest pitch they ever encounter at their job is the B♭ just below that.

This is an excellent point. You should be able to play higher than you ever need to play. You would not buy a car that was only capable of going 60 mph when you intend to drive it 60 mph a lot. The strain on the engine and the possibility of breakdown are too great. I have always thought that your range should be three whole steps above the highest not you will ever need to play.

[Levaix]

Any ideas as to why both Eb and BBb range limit is the same note? Would have thought I would get a few more semitones on Eb.

You'll likely gain a few extra notes on Eb when those become more solid. Once upon a time my range on BBb tuba and compensating euphonium was nearly identical. Now those high notes are solid on euphonium plus I've added a few more on top, but tuba is still relatively shaky where it was. The horn may help, but it's you that determines the pitch.

[jonesbrass]

Thanks for the replies. I have had some small break throughs. I can now hit high Gb G AB and A. Note: to avoid another survey this is the A above the high F above the staff.

These notes are not good and not consistent - yet. I have tried a little of what everyone has advised over the past couple days. What seemed to work for me was giving myself permission method from Bloke and a fast tongue strike to get the vibration going (like spitting something off tip of tongue that is stuck) from other forums that were referenced. I am going to try mouthpiece buzz that was recently posted. Keep the ideas coming.

Any ideas as to why both Eb and BBb range limit is the same note? Would have thought I would get a few more semitones on Eb.

FWIW, I think you need two basic elements to make any range work on tuba: AIR and EAR. If you can hear it accurately in your mind's ear, and you have good air support, your chances of hitting the notes are increased exponentially. As to why you might have the same range on both Eb and BBb tuba, from my experience, I have the same basic range on BBb, CC, Eb, and F. The only thing that changes is the security of hitting the higher notes when playing on a higher-pitched tuba due to having partials that are farther apart. Again, for me, the only reason why I choose to play a contrabass tuba or a bass tuba for any given piece of music is the tonal requirement of the music and ensemble around me. YMMV.

[timothy42b]

These notes are not good and not consistent - yet. I have tried a little of what everyone has advised over the past couple days. What seemed to work for me was giving myself permission method from Bloke and a fast tongue strike to get the vibration going (like spitting something off tip of tongue that is stuck) from other forums that were referenced.

That suggests to me that tongue position (or the most common metaphor, vowel sound) may be a factor for you. It seems to be a big factor in trumpet and high register trombone; maybe for you that's true on tuba as well.

[happyroman]

Thanks for the replies. I have had some small break throughs. I can now hit high Gb G AB and A. Note: to avoid another survey this is the A above the high F above the staff.

These notes are not good and not consistent - yet. I have tried a little of what everyone has advised over the past couple days. What seemed to work for me was giving myself permission method from Bloke and a fast tongue strike to get the vibration going (like spitting something off tip of tongue that is stuck) from other forums that were referenced. I am going to try mouthpiece buzz that was recently posted. Keep the ideas coming.

Any ideas as to why both Eb and BBb range limit is the same note? Would have thought I would get a few more semitones on Eb.

A couple of suggestions. First,keep in mind that high and low notes are just fast and slow vibrations, nothing else. Second, development of the high register is something that takes time so that the muscles of the embouchure can develop enough to produce the faster vibratory rate.

The main thing as you play these notes is to focus on making them sound good. Make sure you sustain them for 6-8 seconds, striving to make them sound as good as possible. If you start the note, and immediately stop if it sounds bad, you will be teaching yourself to play a bad note.

This is one of Arnold Jacobs' philosophies "Bad notes can be made into good notes, silence can't." He taught Dale Clevinger an exercise for high range development when the CSO horns were preparing the Schumann Konzertstuck and he heard Dale practicing the piece. He told him to start in the upper middle register, where he could play comfortably, and play long tones, just one or two notes a day. But he had him play each note 30-40 times. At first, the beginning and end of each note didn't have to be his best tone quality, but the middle of the note did. Then, over time, the quality of the middle of the note had to be transferred to the beginning and the end. After a week or so, move the exercise up a half step and repeat. Over time, you will develop an excellent high register.

Another exercise Jake had was what he called the four note exercise. At quarter note = 60, play the same note three times and slur to the note an octave higher and hold it. For example, F-F-F-f. Play at a mf-f dynamic and focus on transferring the quality of the low note to the high note. Jake called this making the lower note teach the higher note. Start where the upper note is comfortable, and repeat the exercise, moving up a half step at a time.

A third exercise is based on the major scale. Play a quarter note slurred up to a dotted half note (again 60 bpm) in any key, starting on the tonic up an octave (Do-Do). Then follow the pattern Re-Do, Mi-Do, Fa-Do, So-Do, La-Do, Ti-Do. You can also do the exercise in reverse, slurring from the higher note to the lower note. This time the pattern is dotted half slurred down to a quarter note (Do-Ti, Do, La, Do-So, Do-Fa, Do-Mi, Do-Re, Do-Do).

On all of these, think of a tuba that sounds like a human voice singing with a low vowel sound (OH, OOH, or AHH) to keep the tongue low in the mouth so that a thick column of air reaches the lips and start with comfortably full lungs, playing at a mid dynamic (mf-f). Never forget to always strive for your finest quality of tone.

A couple of random thoughts at the end. Use legato primarily when initially developing the high register. This will help keep the tongue from rising in the mouth and cutting off the air stream. And always think very musically when playing in the high range. This will help develop a beautiful sound. You want to make sure not to overdo practice in the extreme ranges (high or low) keeping roughly 80% of your practice in the two octave cash register (low Bb/C to Bb/C just above the staff). The remaining 20% can be split between the high register and very low register. Rex Martin once broke it down even further for me (50% from low Bb to middle Bb, 30% from middle Bb to high Bb, 10% above high Bb, and 10% below low Bb). The main point is that playing too much, too high, can be detrimental to the development of the rest of your playing.

Finally, don't be afraid to let the embouchure change positions on the mouthpiece when changing register (high or low). Jake would often tell the following story to illustrate that point:

"In my second year at the Curtis Institute of Music I was studying Benvenuto Cellini, which goes to a G above our high C. I was having a terrible time playing that note. Mr. Donatelli, my instructor, was a fine tuba player, but he rarely played for me. I asked if he would play this part for me? So he took my tuba and he played it very well. But I noticed that right before he went to the high G, he shifted his embouchure on the mouthpiece. He moved down lower on the mouthpiece and a bell, a light went on in my head. I said aha! he broke a rule. He shifted on the mouthpiece there but he got the high G and it sounded good. I was a former trumpet player, as soon as I saw that and I broke the rules, I not only had high G, but I had G above high G…I haven’t had a bad time with high notes since."

The idea is that the placement of the mouthpiece on the embouchure should be the result of playing each note with your finest quality of sound. Jake didn't care where you put the mouthpiece as long as you sounded great. He would often say to me "Do whatever you want, but just sound better than everybody else. Then they will copy what YOU do."

[Cobra1502]

Thanks for the time taken to send the great replies.

[Mark]

Thanks for the time taken to send the great replies.

I just noticed your location. The absolute best thing for improving your high range are Genuine Saskatchewan Sealskin Bindings.

[TheTuba]

All i can say is sing, buzz, play.
If you can sing it, you can buzz it
If you can buzz it, you can play it, and often buzz higher than what you're intending.
Right now Im working my range up above a middle C (piano middle C)
For people who say "low range helps with high range", you guys are right, but at the same time playing up high helps wayyy more.
The more you play up there the better you sound, more tricks, et.cetera. (That's why you sound better on low/medium stuff, because you play there often)
I often do jazz improvs, with no valves down, and counting on the close partials up there to make it sound cool.
(High school tricks: If you don't know the pep-rally music, play it up an octave higher where the partials are so close that you literally think the note and it comes out with no valves)

There's no easy way, each person is different. Try to get with a university teacher if it becomes a major problem/ inhibiting you of higher performances

[Mark]

… There's no easy way, each person is different. Try to get with a university teacher if it becomes a major problem/ inhibiting you of higher performances...

Uhh, Nevermind...

[TheTuba]

Tubahh Goddhh activated !

I feel like this is bloke or Three Valves

[Three Valves]

If it were me, I’d use two exclamation marks!!

And one of these...

[TheTuba]

Does tuba god only activate when somebody comes along lacking humility, and post as if their solution is the be all end all panacea for the woes that plague mortal tuba players?

Cool board name whoever it is.

'



edited

[Roger Lewis]

To understand how it works, read my post here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4051&hilit=hIGH+rANGE" target="_blank

Roger

[Doug Elliott]

That is very good advice for players whose face is set up to be the most common embouchure type, but there are plenty of players who are one of the other embouchure types and it doesn't work that way.

I fully realize that in the tuba world that's not a popular concept.

[BrassedOn]

Any ideas as to why both Eb and BBb range limit is the same note? Would have thought I would get a few more semitones on Eb.

Regardless of the instrument or mouthpiece, you're lip has to vibrate at the frequency for that F, G, A, etc.

I was working on my tenor trombone and the same issue when trying to play a high ballad. I'm digging through drawers looking for some old shallower mouthpiece I never really liked, trying it on my smaller bore horn, and then "duh!" I buzzed on my mouthpiece and it was exactly the same deal, I was at my buzzed pitch ceiling. Horns and mouthpieces can help make that easier or more consistent, but my high note on alto is not much higher than my high note on tenor. So I know my practice needs to focus on the buzz.

From Rich Matteson (euph and tuba) who never had range problems....

Here's an exercise that worked for me from him:

1. Start in a range that is secure, for example, start with a one octave D scale. Be sure you are already pretty warmed up.
2. Play a relaxed D major scale (starting with D in the staff) up to C# (above the staff), like half notes at mm 120. Play a mezzo-ish, not too loud.
3. Play that partial scale several times.
4. Then play that partial scale and continue on to the D, but DOUBLE the air you're putting through the horn. Like FF. You might change your vowel from "oh" or "ah" to "eee". Do that again.
5. Rest. Basically, you're training yourself to move air at a higher velocity and pushing your lip to vibrate at that frequency.
6. Do the same thing up a half-step, now on an Eb major scale up to D. Repeat the same pattern, remembering to double the air when you get to the high note. Step by step, and with very important rest, you're exercising in a new way.

This combined with singing and mouthpiece buzzing might help strengthen your chops and ears and you can overcome that note on your horn. Work your way up to high G, and on and on. When your Bb and C are strong, the F, G, and A will be a breeze. Someday when it's in your ear and muscles, The note that's a struggle'll be like the other notes. Many horns have a wonky note, if that A is squirrly, and they can be beaten into submission. I had a King 3B trombone with a weird uncentered D in the staff. Talk about a bad place for a bad note!

From Rich Matteson and John Allred,
here's some inspiration:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvJEQ5mevLY