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What can people do if they receive a damage instrument? If the horn doesn't come with a hard case and THEY STILL AGREE to ship the horn knowing this. Who is responsible for the repairs? What if the individual doesn't want the horn now that it's been damaged?

No hard case isn't really a problem. A box and a shitload of styrofoam peanuts... properly double boxed to avoid settling... is really pretty good. No perfect but good.

Shipping in only a gig bag? Real bad idea, and a last resort.

Who pays? It depends... whose fault was it?

I'd suggest getting the tuba insured before it ships. I did that with my most recent tuba. Of course, the damage repair is equal to my deductible, so that's a wash and not worth filing... but had the tuba been destroyed, it's a different story.

Get insurance. Chris Rock had a bit where he said insurance should be called "in case ****"... because the only time you need is in case **** happens.

Hopefully this is a hypothetical question, and not something you are already dealing with.

Are they actually waiting until 13th grade to become virtuosos??

Not to stray too far off topic...

“What can people do??” One asks.

I suggest writing a huge screed on Tubenet about the injustice and let us make fun of you, er... politely advise one of what action should be taken.

I am seeking advice, I want to make the situation right, I'm simply asking for any advice from someone who has dealt with something like this. If you dealt with this, what was done to fix the situation? Who is responsible for fixing the horn? (Yes I realize probably both) I'm just looking for insight.

How was it shipped? Which carrier, how was it boxed up, was there even a box ... Need details.

If it was gross negligence, that's different than a box thrower damaging something that was reasonably well packaged. Or, if it was just a shitty job of packaging, that's a little different too.

How much damage is there (repair estimate is how much)?

What was the payment method? Can the buyer file a claim through PayPal, credit card, etc...

Need some more details to figure it out.

PS, I've been there before, about 4 or 5 years ago, for a tuba that was very poorly packaged. It was done by the UPS store, and by some grace of God, they admitted fault and paid the full repair quote in a matter of a few weeks. Not what I would expect!

Was there any insurance involved here?

Buyers and sellers need to both acknowledge that shipping a tuba is risky. Shipping is agreed upon because neither party wants to drive hundreds or thousands of miles. Come to an agreement BEFORE the tuba is shipped as to what will happen in case of damage or loss. In the past I've had agreements to split losses 50/50, shared risk.

DouglasJB wrote:What can people do if they receive a damage instrument? If the horn doesn't come with a hard case and THEY STILL AGREE to ship the horn knowing this. Who is responsible for the repairs? What if the individual doesn't want the horn now that it's been damaged?

Whomever packed and shipped the horn should be the responsible party for damages if they happen. If the tubas packed correctly then damaged by the carrier then you take them up on the insurance that was paid, i assume there was insurance for shipping?

If you shipped the horn to someone and it got damaged and now that is why they don't want it, well that is not really their problem. Again, the shipper is responsible.

Having a case during shipping is not relevant as the tuba still needs to be packed correctly. A tuba doesnt need any type of case to be shipped as a case wont prevent damages just because you put it in a box.

No matter what your shipping, you still need to pack it with the right amount of packing material, stuff the inside of the bell, and use a box with plenty of space for clearance all around and even then you are just minimizing the chances for damages.

bloke wrote:I'm going to be redundant here:

- Shipping damage is a terrible hassle. It screws up everyone's hopes and plans, collecting from a shipping company is just about like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip, and "settlement money" doesn't repair anything, but - at best - leaves a "repaired instrument" (vs. a "never-damaged instrument") in its wake.

- Because of this, packing should be done by a [tuba] packing expert. [Tuba] packing experts are rare. Many people believe they know how to pack fragile items, so they know how to pack tubas. Most of those people are wrong.

- The most important strategies involved in packing a tuba are to
>> strive to pack a tuba so as the bell rim comes in contact with virtually nothing, as it takes very little force to bend a tuba bell rim and subsequently crease a tuba bell.
>> rather than attempting to conglomerate a tuba and all of its packing materials into a single solid unit, use packing strategies that allow the tuba to slow down and stop at a slower rate of deceleration than everything else, if and when the entire package comes to a very sudden and abrupt stop.

Agree especially on the bell rim part, this is the most important key to all packing.

I think we should have a locked post at the top on packing guidlines for others for quick review when needed.

Joe's hit the nail on the head on a previous post as well with regards to a return. Those a are scary and on the rare return for us i require a customer to call me while they are repacking so i can talk them through it.

Packing is an art, if you can pick up a box after packing and feel something moving while shaking it, then you are asking for trouble.

Thanks guys, I think I've got it figured out at this point.

I recently bought my Tenor Tuba from a guy in Nashville. At the same time, he sold a BAT 6/4 CC horn (buyer in Los Angeles) and even took them both to Greyhound on the same day at the same time.

My horn was shipped in a form fitted cordura-covered case. It was supposed to be delivered to Lynchburg VA in 2 days. Four days later, tracking showed that my Tenor Tuba was in Atlanta GA. So I called Greyhound to find out why... That is when I was told that my horn was headed to Richmond VA, with a final destination of Los Angeles. I got my local agent involved, and we were able to redirect the Tenor Tuba, and I received it on the 5th day. Delivered safe, but sure enough, Greyhound's bill of lading had it going to Los Angeles.

Two weeks later, I get a call from Greyhound in Charlottesville VA. The agent there was apologizing profusely for the driver missing the drop off in Lynchburg and assured me that I would have my tuba the next day. I was confused, but said okay. When I arrived to pick it up, there was the BAT in a padded gig bag and setting on its bell with no support behind it. Greyhound's bill of lading had the BAT addressed to me. I unzipped the bag and found that the horn was wrapped in bubble wrap, and I didn't want to disturb the packing so I didn't look any further. After the BAT was lost in Greyhound's networking for 16 days, the seller asked me to take it to FedEx to ship it onto Los Angeles, the correct destination for this horn. When the horn arrived in Los Angeles, there was damage to the horn.

Moral of the story....
(1.) DON'T SHIP GREYHOUND
(2.) DON'T RELY ON A GIGBAG FOR SHIPPING.

I purchased a tuba about ten years ago from an individual who had never packed and shipped a tuba before. We had agreed in advance that I would pay all shipping cost along with the payment for the tuba. I gave him detailed instructions on how to pack and ship the horn and I was confident that he would follow my instructions. The tuba arrived in a flimsy, taped together box that was flattened on one end. The packing consisted of a couple handfuls of Styrofoam peanuts and an old infant crib bumper. The flattened end of the box was the bell so the bell, leadpipe and valve section were badly damaged. All of the correspondence was by email so I had records of my instructions. I took pictures and immediately contacted the seller. He admitted that he had hastily packed the tuba and agreed to pay for the repairs and reimburse me for the cost of shipping (which I had paid in advance). In the end, the seller came out ahead by about $200.

I guess the moral of the story is to have an agreement in writing in advance of the sale as to who pays for what and what happens if damage occurs. I was lucky in that the seller was honest and very agreeable.

mctuba1 wrote:

bloke wrote:I'm going to be redundant here:

- Shipping damage is a terrible hassle. It screws up everyone's hopes and plans, collecting from a shipping company is just about like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip, and "settlement money" doesn't repair anything, but - at best - leaves a "repaired instrument" (vs. a "never-damaged instrument") in its wake.

- Because of this, packing should be done by a [tuba] packing expert. [Tuba] packing experts are rare. Many people believe they know how to pack fragile items, so they know how to pack tubas. Most of those people are wrong.

- The most important strategies involved in packing a tuba are to
>> strive to pack a tuba so as the bell rim comes in contact with virtually nothing, as it takes very little force to bend a tuba bell rim and subsequently crease a tuba bell.
>> rather than attempting to conglomerate a tuba and all of its packing materials into a single solid unit, use packing strategies that allow the tuba to slow down and stop at a slower rate of deceleration than everything else, if and when the entire package comes to a very sudden and abrupt stop.

Agree especially on the bell rim part, this is the most important key to all packing.

I think we should have a locked post at the top on packing guidlines for others for quick review when needed.

Joe's hit the nail on the head on a previous post as well with regards to a return. Those a are scary and on the rare return for us i require a customer to call me while they are repacking so i can talk them through it.

Packing is an art, if you can pick up a box after packing and feel something moving while shaking it, then you are asking for trouble.

This is the thread that should be stickied.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31654" target="_blank

I bought a horn from "The Hat" and he packed it like a pro. I bought another one from Quinn the Eskimo, and the FedEx had their way with the box but the horn still arrived perfect.

I only made those deals after following them for a long time.

I've shipped several tubas using Norm's post as guidance.

It works.
It's not hard.
It's expensive to do it right

But, it works!