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Ancient Eastern European Contrabass Helicons

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:13 pm
by bigtubby
Fully aware that this is the knee jerk TubeNet reaction to any unknown tuba of European origin: I think that this is probably a very old Cerveny.
http://youtu.be/MAarxcIAjzk

Re: Ancient Eastern European Contrabass Helicons

Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:53 pm
by bigtubby
After looking more carefully I would like to retract my "probably an old Cerveny" assessment. One of the reasons that "Cerveny" is a knee jerk reaction is the fact that so many European tubas were copied of or at least inspired by V. F. Cerveny's designs. My above assessment was based on a memory of an image from an old Cerveny catalog:
Image

Which is quite similar (except 3V vs 4V; keel in wrong place). Then I found a photo of Gideon with this helicon:
Image

... and I see that it has the "pin" style stop arms like my 1890-ish Schuster Army model tuba. I've never seen a Cerveny tuba (or a photo of one) with that type of stop arm. The old Cervenys I've seen have the stop arm that interacts with the S link and has no stop mechanism on the top plate of the valve housing:
Image

Of course the fact that I've never seen one doesn't mean that they don't exist. Input?