Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts. Bookmark and Share

The bulk of the musical talk

Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:25 pm

As of c. a half century ago, rules went out the window, but - if you're on the "musicians board" of an amateur orchestra, consider encouraging migrating from tuxedos to black suits/long ties or tails. As "tails" cost money and offer very few other applications in 2018 life, I'd suggesting going with the "black suit/long tie" thing, and (suggestion) give your musicians a notice (from May to September) to avoid any financial hardships. The reason men typically wear tuxedos at their weddings is because they are (again) "grooms".

bloke "Help stamp out running-board-wear on stage."

Image
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Mike C855B » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:34 pm

Tails for the maestro and featured über-soloists I understand, but who's still requiring this for the troops? It's been black suit/white shirt/dark tie for every formal group I've played with since... uh... forever. Never had to wear a tux.
Miraphone 191 4-valve
1925 Conn 28J
Cerveny CEP 531-4M
Fox 880 "Sayen" (oops... that's an oboe) ;)
Mike C855B
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:23 pm

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:42 pm

Most professional orchestras' male musicians sport tails for nighttime concerts and dark suits with long ties for matinees. Over the last two or three decades, "all black" has evolved into the standard for pit wear, as well as stage performances where an audience's attention is drawn to a screen, rather than to the musicians.
For an amateur orchestra, I would probably view a requirement of the acquisition of tails outfits by all of the male musicians to be an unreasonable request.
"Tails" is an abbreviated version of the old world "long coat" outfit.
If you have ever seen Elvis' 1968 "comeback" show, he wore a long quote for a couple of numbers in that show."

Image
Tails are an abbreviated version of - and evolved from - the old "long coat".
Last edited by bloke on Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Mike C855B » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:03 pm

Yes, I have all-black outfits for pit work. It's funny in the low ambient with just stand lights that we appear to be a bunch of disembodied heads.

You made me look at concert pics for the closest orchestra where I'm contemplating auditioning for the sub list. Yup, tuxes. They're semi-pro - mostly community (music teachers) with some paid. Not that I mind buying formal wear, but like you say it's not something usable anywhere else. At least my black concert suit is OK for weddings and funerals. Don't have to worry about job interviews any more! :wink:
Miraphone 191 4-valve
1925 Conn 28J
Cerveny CEP 531-4M
Fox 880 "Sayen" (oops... that's an oboe) ;)
Mike C855B
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:23 pm

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:14 pm

tuxedo...?? (wedding groom or coachman wear)
Image

or tails...?? (concert wear)
Image
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Three Valves » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:46 pm

Tails??

That’s silly!!
Who needs four valves??

Mack Brass Artiste
MackBrunner 210L
FaxxHB
User avatar
Three Valves
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 3043
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:44 am
Location: The Land of Pleasant Living

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:21 pm

Three Valves wrote:Tails??

That’s silly!!


I agree - For amateur groups, a tails coat (vest, etc.) is an unreasonable expense...
Amateur groups should perform in black suits and long ties (but NOT in black wedding tuxedos).

...Even one of the only-a-few-thousand-bucks-a-year orchestras with which I work wears tails at evening concerts (whereas another wears black-suits-and-long-ties)...but none of them wear wedding tuxedos.
' funny though: In this video, you can only see the conductor's and one violinist's...and the violinist is sitting on his. :roll:

someone's phone video:
https://www.facebook.com/thejacksonsymphonyinjacksontn/videos/1784069444969174/
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Billy M. » Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:52 pm

Interestingly enough, the orchestra I regularly perform with has gone to the Johnny Cash look: Black suit, black button down dress shirt... black tie is optional (though silly to me considering the all black outfit makes the accessory useless.)

I like it because it takes attention away from the orchestra itself and moves it toward the music.

The All-Star Orchestra that Gerard Schwarz hosts has a black suit and tie get up. The tie for all the men is a striped tie, but it matches, even the maestro wears it.
Romans 3:23-24

Billy Morris
Miraphone 1291 CC
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
User avatar
Billy M.
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 576
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:23 pm
Location: Pensacola, Florida USA

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:01 am

The IRIS Orchestra is coat-and-(long) tie, and Michael Stern doesn't walk out on stage out-dressing the orchestra...I just couldn't imagine him doing that. However, he does own some BEAUTIFUL long ties.

Image
Image

Billy,
I LIKE the black-suit-with-a-black-dress-shirt look, and I like it even better with a black long tie accessorizing it.

When I'm hired to do those game show music concerts (on stage, but all-black) I tend to wear a suit COAT as well...which does not break the dress code.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Donn » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:18 am

Turtleneck.
User avatar
Donn
TubeNet Sponsor
TubeNet Sponsor
 
Posts: 5254
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby UncleBeer » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:51 am

bloke wrote:or tails...?? (concert wear)
Image


White pique bow tie is standard though.
User avatar
UncleBeer
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:07 am

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Bnich93 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:02 am

My dream is to one day found an orchestra where the dress code is "what ever you feel most comfortable wearing." On top of that, I would remove any of the pretentious stigma associated with orchestral music so that people of all backgrounds would be more comfortable attending the concerts. I want an orchestra that on top of being musically rock solid, isn't seen as a super fancy event for rich people to go to show off their new church outfits.

It's a pipe dream, but it's MY pipe dream.
2008 Hirsbrunner HB50 w/Warburton 30DL
1990s Mirafone 181 F w/Parker Cantabile 3 piece
Bnich93
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:39 pm

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Mike C855B » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:12 am

Donn wrote:Turtleneck.


Yes. It's a smart look without the restriction of a button collar and tie. If I'm the featured instrumentalist, it's black suit with white turtleneck. In a pit, black turtleneck, black pants, florescent orange socks.

Just kidding on the orange socks. But it's so tempting. :mrgreen:
Miraphone 191 4-valve
1925 Conn 28J
Cerveny CEP 531-4M
Fox 880 "Sayen" (oops... that's an oboe) ;)
Mike C855B
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:23 pm

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:40 am

Unca Bud,
' sorry for grabbing a picture with the wrong freaking tie, and thanks for the correction.

As far as the general orchestral experience is concerned, why not play parts on whatever instruments will cover the parts?
As an example, alto saxophones could easily cover viola parts, and fewer of them would be required. Mellophones would do a much better job of getting the horn sound out into the audience, and the sound would not be late. Tuba players purchase larger and larger tubas as attempts to play louder and louder bass sounds, whereas a $200 5-string bass guitar and a decent $1000 bass guitar amplifier would put out more sound in that range than would ever be needed. That having been said, most of the orchestral sounds can be synthesized these days. ... and why is everyone playing three silly pieces of music just because one guy standing up in front of them wants to play those three pieces of music? Shouldn't musicians be able to play whatever they feel like playing?
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Bnich93 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:56 am

bloke wrote: As far as the general orchestral experience is concerned, why not play parts on whatever instruments will cover the parts?
As an example, alto saxophones could easily cover viola parts, and fewer of them would be required. Mellophones would do a much better job of getting the horn sound out into the audience, and the sound would not be late. Tuba players purchase larger and larger tubas as attempts to play louder and louder bass sounds, whereas a $200 5-string bass guitar and a decent $1000 bass guitar amplifier would put out more sound in that range than would ever be needed. That having been said, most of the orchestral sounds can be synthesized these days. ... and why is everyone playing three silly pieces of music just because one guy standing up in front of them wants to play those three pieces of music? Shouldn't musicians be able to play whatever they feel like playing?


Your dream orchestra can go ahead! Rules are for the birds.
2008 Hirsbrunner HB50 w/Warburton 30DL
1990s Mirafone 181 F w/Parker Cantabile 3 piece
Bnich93
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:39 pm

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby Mike C855B » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:11 am

bloke wrote:... Mellophones would do a much better job of getting the horn sound out into the audience, and the sound would not be late. ...

I know you're just tweaking us, but mellophones suck. I'll take a phalanx of euphs playing horn parts over mellophones any day. :P
Miraphone 191 4-valve
1925 Conn 28J
Cerveny CEP 531-4M
Fox 880 "Sayen" (oops... that's an oboe) ;)
Mike C855B
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:23 pm

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:41 pm

Culture (particularly high culture), traditions, and decorum are of value.
General chaos (a lack of rules) is (though some misinterpret it as "free") actually restrictive, due to the lack of respect for individuals and the lack of respect for all that it dictates.

I enjoy listening to the best compositions of Bach, Brahms, Beethoven, Mahler, Debussy (and on-and-on), and am grateful to those who underwrote the costs of composing those works. I also enjoy going to concerts where there is no talking (which makes it easier to hear the music) and no people constantly getting up-and-down (continuously presenting other patron's faces with their rear ends) in order to buy drinks, food, to go smoke, or whatever. Though I'm not a particularly social person, I do appreciate it when I am around others who engage in basic hygiene, wear clean clothing, speak only as loudly as necessary, and watch where they are going when they move about.
Symphony orchestra musicians (even were they to sport wedding tuxedos - as I've seen some do in pictures on the internet) do so in order to avoid attracting attention to themselves (such as with sloganized red baseball caps, rainbow T-shirts, jeans exposing buttocks, and the like) and making the presentation more about the music. Most orchestras (to the same goal) have a "no exposing clothing or excessive jewelry" rule for female clothing. In contrast, popular music concerts (mostly: "low culture", as the days of Chicago; Emerson, Lake, & Palmer, Pink Floyd...and certainly the days of Nat Cole, Sinatra, Tormé, etc., etc...have passed) are mostly about theatrics, visuals, and shock. When orchestral musicians are on stage, they dress formally in to show respect and gratitude to the patrons. When performing in a pit, orchestral musicians dress in "all black" so as to barely be visually seen (as their job - in a pit - is to accompany a visual stage show).
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby swillafew » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:44 pm

MORE AIR
User avatar
swillafew
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 985
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:20 pm
Location: Aurora, IL

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby bloke » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

not always:

Image
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 41326
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Tuxedos are for coachmen and weddings, not concerts.

Postby David Richoux » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:42 pm

I had to find a 20s-30s period Tux coat and shirt when I started filling in with the Royal Society Jazz Orchestra in the 1980s. It was not easy at my size, but at least I then had a general purpose longish black formal coat for other gigs as needed. Maybe it is different for Jazz Recreation groups - there are still a few around, but have a heart for the Civil War Recreation Bands! Those uniforms are expensive and you have to get wire rim glasses, tents and stuff. And Over the Shoulder Horns.
User avatar
David Richoux
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1951
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:52 am
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, mostly. Also Greater Seattle at times.

Next

Return to TubeNet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Art Hovey, Baidu [Spider], Cdub, daktx2, GC, Google [Bot] and 30 guests