TubeNet

Willson 3400 EEb using a Monnettte 94 MP is a straight on n point and shoot tuba. It makes the tuner “bling” up and down tthhe scacalle. All to my surprise.

Meinl Weston 2045 “Mr Tuba” - switched from a Wilson 3+1 about 4 months ago and haven’t found a duff note since. Also using a selection of Klier mouthpieces (4C is a good general purpose and not extortionate) which are impressive. Good bottom end and no 4th valve stuffiness you’d get on a compensated EEb

      My Wessex "Bombino" has better intonation than previous Yamaha or Meinl Wesson models I once owned. The compensation really helps in the lower register.

I have owned a besson sovereign 981 ee flat for the last 28 years. I still use the original mouthpiece that came with the horn.. a gold plated denis wick 3L. Intonation has always been spot on.No slide pulling.

Strangely enough, the most point-and-shoot Eb I've played was an 1870's era Lehnert Eb contrabass Saxhorn in nickel-silver. It had a big, dark tone and sounded better and played better than most modern horns. It was also a far better instrument than any of the other mid-1800's instruments I played in the museum band I was with for about a decade.

My JP 3+1 EEb that I purchased from Bloke has excellent intonation. I am very thankful someone convinced me not to sell it to help pay some bills...With a little extra work, the bills were paid

Dan Tuba wrote:My JP 3+1 EEb that I purchased from Bloke has excellent intonation. I am very thankful someone convinced me not to sell it to help pay some bills...With a little extra work, the bills were paid

Glad you were able to keep it. You sound great on it.

I have played a few and most have been very good. Hard to say which one is the best. I do agree with bloke - the compensating system is sharp in the extreme low register. Okay if you are only playing with another similar instrument but not ideal otherwise. I tend to blow VERY flat on tuba's - so it's a bit of an issue if they aren't designed to play at 442. So my focus is more on the relative tuning as I often have to cut the main tuning slide - a problem if it isn't long enough.

The ones I have played:

Wessex Bombino - Very good intonation, slightly sharp in the upper register but fixed by using a small throat mouthpiece. 5th partial fairly flat but okay with alternate fingering. No slide cut needed for me. Low register was a little sharp in the 4th valve register, just like bloke says. But the problem was exacerbated by the short length of the third compensating slide.
Besson Sovereign - never had any joy with these - had a 1988 built one but too flat overall - needed the Fletcher cut for me. Would have been good otherwise. Played a newer one in reasonably poor condition - but third partial chronically flat. It might have been one of the ones built during the lottery period. A complete rebuild might have helped.
Besson Imperial/New standard - 5th partial flat - I don't like these ones. We have two at band. The Bb versions are exceptional intonation wise but not a fan of the Eb version.
Wessex Gnagey - played one that was very good - partials lined up except 5th partial which needed alternate fingering. Low register needed slide pulling to fill in gaps. For me would have needed the slide cut a lot.
Miraphone Norwegian Star - very good. 5th partial pretty close. Used a small throat mouthpiece to flatten the otherwise sharp high register. I thought the 5th valve was only just long enough.
Wessex Champion - pretty good - used a Denis wick 2 to get best tuning. I thought the 2nd valve slide was a fraction too long. But it didn't need to shorten the main tuning slide - so that was a bonus

I would say it is hard to say which one is best - gotta chose the right mouthpeice and then it depends on how out of tune the other players are around you. Also make sure you don't get a dog

I know there are complaints about the sharpness of the low register on compensating horns with the low E being quite a bit high, but that seems to be nothing compared to the sharpness of the non-comp 4-valve system. After all, 1234 gives a sharp F; it's so sharp the E doesn't exist without a big slide pull, and Ab-Gb are considerably off without a lot of lipping.

As I have repeatedly said, I don't even mess with Fs anymore - never could play one in tune and didn't have the time or energy to work at it, especially when I could readily find better-in-tune, easier-to-play, more responsive, cheaper alternatives with Eb instruments. My Besson 983 does very nicely intonation-wise using the Wick 3L it came with, less well with other mouthpieces. I haven't really detected an intonation issue in the extreme low register but that may be because I am fixated a bit on the relative stuffiness, and awkwardness of having the 4th valve down with my right pinkie. But it sings so nicely from low Bb up, with such good intonation (compared to every F I have ever played) that I am happy to put up with the negatives. My test of the Wessex Gnagey strongly suggested a very good instrument to be had (economical alternative to the Willson 3400 - and quite possibly even better), but not so with the Wessex Danube. I had high hopes that it might be a good substitute for the Miraphone Norwegian Star, which remains my target Eb for one day. But I cannot recommend the Danube at all. Wrong ergonomics for my hands, valves not right, overtone series WAY off.

DonShirer wrote:      My Wessex "Bombino" has better intonation than previous Yamaha or Meinl Wesson models I once owned. The compensation really helps in the lower register.

I would love to try one of those especially since I think it would be a downsize from my NStar, but....the value of the NStar is that it carries like a contrabass and I can drive an amateur brass band with it. Somehow I doubt the Bombino could do that....but am I wrong?

I would love to try one of those especially since I think it would be a downsize from my NStar, but....the value of the NStar is that it carries like a contrabass and I can drive an amateur brass band with it. Somehow I doubt the Bombino could do that....but am I wrong?

I have spent a lot of time on a NStar and Bombino. If you mean a british style brass band it would be fine on the Eb part. My right shoulder is problematic - so holding 3+1 tuba's is a no no for me these days. Otherwise I would have kept the Bombino I had for marching and busking gigs, but used a larger Eb for brass band. It has a good low register, although if you were being really pedantic with intonation a 3rd valve trigger/slide adjustment would be handy for flattening the extreme low register. It could work as you wanted - but just wouldn't be as loud or organ like in the lower register. The compensating system isn't 'stuffy' but the small bore worked best with a faster air stream.

You might also want to spend some time holding it - it has a different 'lean' than the Nstar - so just make sure it is ergonomically ok for you.

I'm gonna have to agree with Bloke, best intonation on an Eb has got to be a 3+1. [shameless plug] I purchased one from him about a year ago [end shameless plug] (and while not quite his... I'm thinking the difference is very small at best 3-5% now that I've really spent time with it) and it is by far the easiest in-tune bass tuba I've ever played.

When Prof. Frederick Young did intonation test on the whole range of Wessex tubas that had been made 3 years ago with his electronic equipment, he found the TE360 Bombino the most in tune tuba with itself he had ever tested. Even better than the full size compensated Eb’s, which are pretty good as well.

Wessex does have a new large 6/4 Eb similar to the one of Carl Kleinsteuber coming out next year. That will be available in 4+1 non-compensated and 3+1 compensated configurations. It will like the Chicago CC and Prokofiev BBb be fully handcrafted.

There is no doubt that the new Wessex models coming out now are better than some from the past, in part due to the huge talents of Wessex Chief Designer, Chuck Nickles - and also the fact that we now have a dedicated skilled production team and will accept no compromises in design, or build.

Jonathan, I just re-read your note on the 64 Eb and finally picked up on it. So the 2 versions will be one front action (4+1) instrument and one top action (3+1) instrument? Same bugle, just flipping it around? Or are you looking at a 3+1 front action horn?

I played a Boosey & Hawkes Eb for about 10 years,the 981 model. I have always felt that it was the instrument with the least number of playing imperfections that I have ever played. The one thing I never adjusted to was the sound difference between low E and pedal Eb. It never seemed to affect John Fletcher.

The 984 (front action) was just about as good but the valve block is set oddly for me, I could never get any finger technique with that configuration.

jeopardymaster wrote:Jonathan, I just re-read your note on the 64 Eb and finally picked up on it. So the 2 versions will be one front action (4+1) instrument and one top action (3+1) instrument? Same bugle, just flipping it around? Or are you looking at a 3+1 front action horn?

You understanding is correct;

1) 4-front piston with 5th rotor
2) 3-top piston and one side piston compensated

Same bell and bugle on both.

MW 2141 Eb is the most point-and-shoot with very just intonation all over the range I ever have tried. Definitely prefer it over any 19'' 4+1 comp Eb I had the chance to play. Don't know anything about Wilson 3400 and Norwegian Star.

Yamaha 321 4-valve non-compensated is also very fine. But you'l miss the 5th valve (or compensation) for the low register.

marccromme wrote:MW 2141 Eb is the most point-and-shoot with very just intonation all over the range I ever have tried.

Marc, How do you find the E above the staff? I previously had a 2141 and although overall it was a good tuba, the two things that I really did not like were; 1) Slotting of that E was difficult to say the least. I would prefer to play a solo with high E on my CC tuba than risk it on the 2141. 2) I found the valve block uncomfortably high and the tuba difficult to hold - in fact I had to always use a playing stand, as once it slipped while playing (no thumb ring) and hit me over the head with its bell to the amusement of everyone around

Wyvern wrote:

jeopardymaster wrote:Jonathan, I just re-read your note on the 64 Eb and finally picked up on it. So the 2 versions will be one front action (4+1) instrument and one top action (3+1) instrument? Same bugle, just flipping it around? Or are you looking at a 3+1 front action horn?

You understanding is correct;

1) 4-front piston with 5th rotor
2) 3-top piston and one side piston compensated

Same bell and bugle on both.

Just out of curiosity Jonathan, how come you don't consider the new 6/4 Eb equipped with z-valves? A big rotary Eb would be nice I think. Even maybe a serious alternative to the N Star perhaps....

/T